A Man and His Music
DJ Cyder wrote :
Well here in rural Pennsylvania we have guns, religion,apathy
and we are bitter. Rick you are a great American.
and we are bitter. Rick you are a great American.
Unfortunately, you are gonna have to get over it, because rural America, has been dying a slow painful death, since the dust bowl. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it, because rural Americans are dying. Part of the bitterness, stems from knowing you are a dying breed. Technology is the final nail in your coffin, and it is being hit by the hammer, as we speak. Believe it or not, you are swinging the hammer. You have many computers, broadband, cable or satellite TV, cell phones, video consoles, you name it. Your kids have tasted this poison, and they like it. You and I are addicted, and they will be, also. Do you think they want to get up before dawn, to work the land? Please, they are so outta there, as fast as they can. The factories that sustained that rural life, have long been gone. The strip malls are popping up around you like weeds. Seen any big national hotels going up lately? We do not have to discuss the Meth problem in rural America, do we? And what's up with these teenagers, killing their whole families?
You know, 80 years ago, they didn't believe rural America was dying, either. Just like they don't believe Al Gore now. Hey, you and I will not be here to see it. Then again, the shit could hit the fan while we are still alive.
So, take a guess which companies are sucking up all the land? Who is hiring all this cheap labor? What companies are importing most of the cheap goods we buy? I will not provide the answers, because I think you are capable of finding this information out yourself.
So, rural America can be bitter if it wants to, but what does that accomplish?
Cyder, I believe you are a great American also. We just see things differently.
Now, if you could just return a brothers phone call.
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 1:23 pm
Bren F
There is a saying regarding British and U.S relations: "both divided by a common language", the only place I fall victim of this observation would be here, when we talk about the big issues or politics. All we have here are words, and there are some big differences between Anglo-English and American English, the different way words are used and understood can be a problem.
For example, when we had the debate on Iraq I was said by some heads to be "anti-American", when in fact my only criticism regarding the U.S was its recent foreign policy, which I stated "I do not feel reflects the American people", which is of course backed up by a number of polls, over the war or current administration.
CYDER WROTE:
"That's a very close-minded statement, to say your thoughts and beliefs are not influenced by any outside sources is just plain crazy. Forming opinions about Americans from somewhere in the UK is equally as questionable. Whatever the motive, I still think your alright in my book."
Firstly that wasn't what I was suggesting, when I say "he has his own mind", that's not to say he's not influenced by sources outside of himself, it's more to say that he seeks information through more sources, and from that is able to form sound judgement, and good opinions (likely to be true), also as he would say "smell bullshit", that's a strong ability not many have these days.
Ever watch the news with your friends? The majority assume the same view as they are being presented, largely because they aren't aware of the bias, but see it as "fact", because of the news channels acclaimed authority, the author of Fox news also owns the most popular British news channel (Sky), around 3 British newspapers and who knows what else, indeed these are all very biased and love beating the drums of war , and fuelling hate for minority groups/immigrants. In my view they are a disgrace to democracy, as they clearly abuse it.
I don't quite understand the second point you made, regarding me forming an opinion of an American/Americans from somewhere in the UK. Either you are suggesting that it is not my business to do this? or you can't imagine me having credible knowledge of American society? please elaborate so I can.
I think two people can have very different views on politics, and still be friends, although it can be risky when discussing certain issues when both sides are passionate.
For example, when we had the debate on Iraq I was said by some heads to be "anti-American", when in fact my only criticism regarding the U.S was its recent foreign policy, which I stated "I do not feel reflects the American people", which is of course backed up by a number of polls, over the war or current administration.
CYDER WROTE:
"That's a very close-minded statement, to say your thoughts and beliefs are not influenced by any outside sources is just plain crazy. Forming opinions about Americans from somewhere in the UK is equally as questionable. Whatever the motive, I still think your alright in my book."
Firstly that wasn't what I was suggesting, when I say "he has his own mind", that's not to say he's not influenced by sources outside of himself, it's more to say that he seeks information through more sources, and from that is able to form sound judgement, and good opinions (likely to be true), also as he would say "smell bullshit", that's a strong ability not many have these days.
Ever watch the news with your friends? The majority assume the same view as they are being presented, largely because they aren't aware of the bias, but see it as "fact", because of the news channels acclaimed authority, the author of Fox news also owns the most popular British news channel (Sky), around 3 British newspapers and who knows what else, indeed these are all very biased and love beating the drums of war , and fuelling hate for minority groups/immigrants. In my view they are a disgrace to democracy, as they clearly abuse it.
I don't quite understand the second point you made, regarding me forming an opinion of an American/Americans from somewhere in the UK. Either you are suggesting that it is not my business to do this? or you can't imagine me having credible knowledge of American society? please elaborate so I can.
I think two people can have very different views on politics, and still be friends, although it can be risky when discussing certain issues when both sides are passionate.
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 1:29 pm
DJ Cyder
I have to disagree, and Rick may share this as I think some commonalty does exist on this issue. I'm largely self-educated and I continue to lean and read more every day, not blogs or cnn, but those rectangular things called books. Due to my upbringing rural Indiana, and not being part of a large mostly liberal college system not having an influence on me, (I did the 2 year thing mostly at night while working a full time job as an apprentice) I didn't have a professor forcing his ideas on me. So yeah, I see things a little different I make a point to try to learn something I didn't know every day, I'm hungy to lean new things, factual based things not the drive by media.
My parents were both reformed hippies, so I have an ingrained mistrust of government and it was part of my upbringing, so yes I have that trust no one mentality when it comes to the press, if you don't think they have an agenda then you should crawl out from under that rock.
As for the request of clarification on my second point, I'll say this. There is an old Indian (native American) proverb (Indian's (native Americans) are the true original Americans btw) Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins.
I will tell you all this with all the gloom a doom going on and things are so bad why do they still smile??
I just hope for their sake the "change" everyone is talking about doesn't come too soon, unless its that retarded no child left behind which forces my kids (pictured above) to be mediocre. So as we continue to raise a generation of doubters, we can only hope for the best in these "troubled" times.
My parents were both reformed hippies, so I have an ingrained mistrust of government and it was part of my upbringing, so yes I have that trust no one mentality when it comes to the press, if you don't think they have an agenda then you should crawl out from under that rock.
As for the request of clarification on my second point, I'll say this. There is an old Indian (native American) proverb (Indian's (native Americans) are the true original Americans btw) Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins.
I will tell you all this with all the gloom a doom going on and things are so bad why do they still smile??
I just hope for their sake the "change" everyone is talking about doesn't come too soon, unless its that retarded no child left behind which forces my kids (pictured above) to be mediocre. So as we continue to raise a generation of doubters, we can only hope for the best in these "troubled" times.
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 2:00 pm
Tear Em 'Up
Bren, I am not disputing what you are saying..and I respect your point of view even if it differs from my own. Please keep a few things in mind when reading the polls taken here in the U.S. They are taken by large companies in large cities and do not accurately represent how the entire country feels. All of the television is broadcast from large cities as well and as such they have an urban point of view.
I live an hour south of Chicago, however I lived in the city for ten years. There is a very substantial, and yet subtle, difference in the way city people think over agrarian people. Here we can go days without seeing a police officer, or emergency service vehicle. Because we do not need them. That makes one tend to think we do not really need larger government. It also makes you realize just how crazy things can get in a large city.
Here is another factoid that is often overlooked and rarely mentioned in the media you would have access to. The largest, ratings wise, talk radio host for political talk is hands down Rush Limbaugh. His average number of listeners per day is three times that of USA Today, Newsweek magazine, and The New York Times combined. So not everything is as it appears to an outsider. Our country is painted in a bad light by the very people who the rest of the world would recognize. They do not, however, speak for all of us. It is also popular to bash my country and it makes a person very defensive. Your intent might not be bad, but your statements have from time to time come across as extremely negative towards a place that we call home.
Ted Nugent words this the best of anyone I have ever heard, who lived in my time. "The United States is not perfect, we have problems, it sucks. It just happens to suck a whole lot less than anywhere else on this planet. Why else would people be willing to die to come here? But this experiment in government by 'We The People' is still the best thing the world has to offer. And our forefathers who drafted our constitution were visionaries for creating such a document. To have the foresight to allow for growth and change a full 200 years after the original document was penned is qenius of the highest order! I bow to the wisdom and passionate sacrifice given by those great men too grant us a place such as this to call The United States Of America, my home. And every Red, White and Blue loving member of this country needs to remember that!"
I live an hour south of Chicago, however I lived in the city for ten years. There is a very substantial, and yet subtle, difference in the way city people think over agrarian people. Here we can go days without seeing a police officer, or emergency service vehicle. Because we do not need them. That makes one tend to think we do not really need larger government. It also makes you realize just how crazy things can get in a large city.
Here is another factoid that is often overlooked and rarely mentioned in the media you would have access to. The largest, ratings wise, talk radio host for political talk is hands down Rush Limbaugh. His average number of listeners per day is three times that of USA Today, Newsweek magazine, and The New York Times combined. So not everything is as it appears to an outsider. Our country is painted in a bad light by the very people who the rest of the world would recognize. They do not, however, speak for all of us. It is also popular to bash my country and it makes a person very defensive. Your intent might not be bad, but your statements have from time to time come across as extremely negative towards a place that we call home.
Ted Nugent words this the best of anyone I have ever heard, who lived in my time. "The United States is not perfect, we have problems, it sucks. It just happens to suck a whole lot less than anywhere else on this planet. Why else would people be willing to die to come here? But this experiment in government by 'We The People' is still the best thing the world has to offer. And our forefathers who drafted our constitution were visionaries for creating such a document. To have the foresight to allow for growth and change a full 200 years after the original document was penned is qenius of the highest order! I bow to the wisdom and passionate sacrifice given by those great men too grant us a place such as this to call The United States Of America, my home. And every Red, White and Blue loving member of this country needs to remember that!"
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 2:33 pm
Bren F
Cyder,
I accept disagreement, but I don't understand quite where you are coming from, I don't think I need to walk anywhere in anybody’s shoes in order to pay a compliment, it's simply based on what I know of him, it doesn't mean I agree for everything he stands for, I'm sure we could easily find an issue that would bring us to an argument, like with anyone, no two people are exactly the same (or I hope not).
TearEmup,
Most people in the UK don't feel patriotic about their country, we don't have sayings such as "you're a great English man", if I said that to anyone, they would laugh (because it would be so new to them). Most people here don't have a sense of being part of the greatest country in the world, but everyone believes that their football team is the best in the world (no matter how bad they really are).
If one was realistic, they would realise, that there is no way of measuring whether you live in the best country in the world, nobody has tried everywhere. If you are a patriot, then of course you would say that, but as someone who has travelled and lived in different countries, I have to take the balanced view: Every country is unique, what one has another doesn't, there is no "best", but ultimately it's not where you are, but who you are with, so your homeland will usually be best for YOU.
There are tons of places that are popular emigrant destinations: Spain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, U.S, U.K, UAE.., generally peoples first or second language is English, so it makes sense to re-locate to a destination where you can affectively live a normal life.
So don't think my opinions are unique to the U.S, I also have a cynical view of my own government, I am jealous of some other European countries though, I think many get a better deal, but I'm also very grateful that I don't live in poverty, under a brutal regime or in a war zone.
I accept disagreement, but I don't understand quite where you are coming from, I don't think I need to walk anywhere in anybody’s shoes in order to pay a compliment, it's simply based on what I know of him, it doesn't mean I agree for everything he stands for, I'm sure we could easily find an issue that would bring us to an argument, like with anyone, no two people are exactly the same (or I hope not).
TearEmup,
Most people in the UK don't feel patriotic about their country, we don't have sayings such as "you're a great English man", if I said that to anyone, they would laugh (because it would be so new to them). Most people here don't have a sense of being part of the greatest country in the world, but everyone believes that their football team is the best in the world (no matter how bad they really are).
If one was realistic, they would realise, that there is no way of measuring whether you live in the best country in the world, nobody has tried everywhere. If you are a patriot, then of course you would say that, but as someone who has travelled and lived in different countries, I have to take the balanced view: Every country is unique, what one has another doesn't, there is no "best", but ultimately it's not where you are, but who you are with, so your homeland will usually be best for YOU.
There are tons of places that are popular emigrant destinations: Spain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, U.S, U.K, UAE.., generally peoples first or second language is English, so it makes sense to re-locate to a destination where you can affectively live a normal life.
So don't think my opinions are unique to the U.S, I also have a cynical view of my own government, I am jealous of some other European countries though, I think many get a better deal, but I'm also very grateful that I don't live in poverty, under a brutal regime or in a war zone.
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 4:15 pm
Tear Em 'Up
Bagpuss wrote :
Most people in the UK don't feel patriotic about their country, we don't have sayings such as "you're a great English man"
That is a shame, because they once did. After WWII Englishmen like Churchill and Lord Mountbatton wore their patriotism with pride. And were recognized the world over as great men, and great Englishmen. Our two countries have a long standing tradition of mutual support and respect. It took the combined strength and resolve of both of our great countries to fight back fascism and communism. "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" is a favorite saying here in the U.S. but, it could also be used in regards to the relationship between the U.S. and Great Briton. We might not always agree...but we always respect and support each others rights. Both here on this forum, between you and I personally and, between our two great nations.
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 4:32 pm
dj maddsound
Wow Terry...didn't expect that...meow...hiss hiss...LOL.
Any who, all that I was doing was being part of this forum...I mean it doesn't say
"Anything about Virtual DJ, Numark Cue, Numark Virtual Vinyl or AtomixMP3, or not about them*
This a general discussion. Please be polite and speak with respect. Except for MaddSound, he can't talk here. ;)"
I was simply expressing my disagreement with the state of OUR economy. And yes folks our people in Chicago ARE paying over $4 a gallon for gas. Oh yeah I forgot my internet statistic...ahem...http://cbs2chicago.com/consumer/gas.prices.milestone.2.697232.html
In regards to the Iraq comment I was referring to the fact that alot of the uncertainty in oil prices comes from unrest in the Middle East. ;)
In regards to the Republican versus Democrat, I thought that I was clear...both parties ARE to blame. BOTH.
Terry wrote: "feel free to pick apart my response to you as I know you enjoy doing..I am very concerned about your enjoyment, and you do love to get the last word in....."
Wow...well enjoyment isn't the word I would use, but a simple explaination to a potential hostle situation. ;)
And you know it is tough for people out here...not as rosey as some think and not as bad as others do.
So if I put my nose into this...sorry...but I never meant to be Mr. Feel Good or Mr. Brown Nose...I am who I am and yes God Bless America.
MADD
Any who, all that I was doing was being part of this forum...I mean it doesn't say
"Anything about Virtual DJ, Numark Cue, Numark Virtual Vinyl or AtomixMP3, or not about them*
This a general discussion. Please be polite and speak with respect. Except for MaddSound, he can't talk here. ;)"
I was simply expressing my disagreement with the state of OUR economy. And yes folks our people in Chicago ARE paying over $4 a gallon for gas. Oh yeah I forgot my internet statistic...ahem...http://cbs2chicago.com/consumer/gas.prices.milestone.2.697232.html
In regards to the Iraq comment I was referring to the fact that alot of the uncertainty in oil prices comes from unrest in the Middle East. ;)
In regards to the Republican versus Democrat, I thought that I was clear...both parties ARE to blame. BOTH.
Terry wrote: "feel free to pick apart my response to you as I know you enjoy doing..I am very concerned about your enjoyment, and you do love to get the last word in....."
Wow...well enjoyment isn't the word I would use, but a simple explaination to a potential hostle situation. ;)
And you know it is tough for people out here...not as rosey as some think and not as bad as others do.
So if I put my nose into this...sorry...but I never meant to be Mr. Feel Good or Mr. Brown Nose...I am who I am and yes God Bless America.
MADD
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 7:07 pm
Tear Em 'Up
Wow..24 hours and that is the best you could do Madd? I was simply pointing out discrepancies in your statement. Please point out to me where I was saying your input was not welcome...I'll wait for you too find it...
Mean while, In response to your gas prices..talk to Mayor Dailey...not me..I was pointing out the national average...ahem.....It is not our fault you chose to live in the City of Chicago proper.....so don't sat "we" say "I".......I filled up today with premium at $3.75 a gallon at a Shell (owned by CIrcle K).....
Mean while, In response to your gas prices..talk to Mayor Dailey...not me..I was pointing out the national average...ahem.....It is not our fault you chose to live in the City of Chicago proper.....so don't sat "we" say "I".......I filled up today with premium at $3.75 a gallon at a Shell (owned by CIrcle K).....
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 7:31 pm
dj maddsound
Terry this is just silly. I can't be on the forum all day. I do have a wife, kids and a demanding job. So here we go again. I am not going to drag this out in a public forum...geez this makes the forum look very bad. I refuse to fight over silly things and lower my standards. So I will be the bigger man and "moderate" the tone here...I will not post here again. So I left my opinion and that is that. I do agree in part with ALL those that posted, while I do not agree with everything.
Okie Dokie Smokie? ;););)
Peace
MADD
Okie Dokie Smokie? ;););)
Peace
MADD
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 8:16 pm
tayla
make you feel better about your petrol prices guys wherever you are in the states, $10 a gallon at the pumps in the uk.... anyone else round the world pay a higher equivalent, make me feel better.... hope that helps
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 8:27 pm
Tear Em 'Up
No Jeffery, it does not make the forum look bad....your over sensitivity to my disagreeing with you makes you look bad...but that is not my issue. I understand you have a life off of the forum, we all do, and not once ever did I ever hint at anything to the contrary in this thread. This thread actually has me fairly proud, we are having an intelligent exchange of ideas and opinions. And, until you took umbrage with me, no one was getting personal. Hence there was no need for you to "moderate" or to simply put a
Okie Dokie Smokie???
dj maddsounds wrote :
, if these things had been needed I am sure a Teamer would have stepped in. Input from all is welcome here. So, please feel free and welcome to voice your opinion....and be prepared to have anyone examine it and post a counter thought, or point out anything that might not be factual. Or would that be explaination to a potential hostle situation
dj maddsounds wrote :
having someone point these things out?
lowering your standards
Okie Dokie Smokie???
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 8:32 pm
DJ Cyder
tayla wrote :
make you feel better about your petrol prices guys wherever you are in the states, $10 a gallon at the pumps in the uk.... anyone else round the world pay a higher equivalent, make me feel better.... hope that helps
Tayla Please don't take this the wrong way. I know people in the UK often get screwed by higher prices on things, but this is not one of them. Europe (as a whole) has one of the best public transit systems ever constructed and not having a car would equate to some one not having a 50 inch tv or a wirlpool tub in the states. Also most of it isn't that big meaning that you can get here to there a lot quicker then in the US because its much smaller. Many people commute to work 1 hr in both directions in the US that is pretty much unheard of in the UK. The "car" is much different over there then it is here. In many parts of europe a car is considered for the very wealthy oil, based on that less people buying it. Anyways.
Fixing on the price of gas and food isn't going to help anyone. If you understand the way things really work and what really effects the price. Oil prices are affected by supply and demand. However, oil prices are also affected by oil price futures, which are traded on the commodities futures exchange. These prices change daily, depending on what investors think the price of oil will be in the future.
What effects supply this is a two fold answer and the latter really will piss you off.
OPEC is an organization of oil-producing countries that control the world's oil. In 1960, they formed an alliance to regulate the supply, (bull$hit) they want to control the price of oil. These countries know that they have a non-renewable resource, and if they competed with each other, the price of oil would be so low that they would run out sooner than if oil prices were higher. (couse this goes against the free enterprise system we are used to) Opec really isn't to blame here, the argument usually is why can't they just increase production. Well the simple answer is they can't drill it any faster then they already are, no one had the foresight to invest in oil getting technology and the sad truth is many of these systems are so severely out of date, they have to make their own replacement parts. Face it folks the easy oil is gone.
Now the real kicker is with china on the verge of industrial revolution, they are gonna use more oil as well so with 2/3 of the oil going to the US what did you think would happen.
Now we got these tree huggers and deer lovers and Al gores preventing us from getting our own damn oil. So yeah the environmentalists that sold the BS on Cnn created a dependence on foreign oil with their not in our backyard attitude and we went right along with it yeah global warming is quite fasionable, I drive a hybrid that gets worse gas mileage then a fully gas vehicle, and with the mataince costs added in you actually loose money driving one when compared to a normal car. So really we created this mess trying to save our selfs from our selfs. Oh save us Al Gore we know not what we do....
Here is something to think about because its already happened once in the US.
Oil futures, or futures contracts, are an agreement to buy or sell oil at a specific date in the future at a specific price. Traders in oil futures bid on the price of oil based on what they think oil will trade at. They look at projected supply and demand to determine the price. However, if traders think the price of oil will be high, they will actually create a self-fulfilling prophecy by bidding up oil prices. This can create high oil prices even when there is plenty of supply on hand. Once this starts, then other investors will bid on oil prices just like any other commodity, such as gold, and create a bubble.
And....what happens when the bubble bursts????? Think about what happened to the Internet bubble.
Getting back to tayla's comments I have some more food for thought.
The U.S. uses 20% of the world's oil. Two-thirds of this is for transportation. This is a result of the country's vast network of Federal highways leading to suburbs built in the 1950's. This decentralization was in response to the threat of nuclear attack, which was a great concern in the 1950's. Unfortunately, the consequence is that the country has not developed the infrastructure for mass transit, and is dependent upon imported oil.
So There you have it how we screwed ourselfs when it comes to oil.
Oh by the way
The U.S. stores 700 million barrels of oil in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
发表时间 Wed 07 May 08 @ 11:19 pm
dj-e-lectric
Forget all the crap, misinformation, media hype, statistics and bullsh*t....gas is at the price it is because WE will pay for it and the oil and gas industry know it and they will continue their greedy increases BECAUSE THEY CAN.
The ONLY way to get oil and gas prices to come down is to quit buying it and the auto manufactures won't change the kind of cars they make until we quit buying them too....that means bite the big one and get rid of your 15mpg gas hog status symbol suvs and buy something that uses less gas.........hey here's a thought why don't we all QUIT BUYING ANY new cars until the car manufactures come out with a COMPARABLY priced line of pure electrics. I would be willing to bet if car sales went down even 50% and stayed down for several months in a row the automakers would quickly market a line of 100% electric cars in each product category at a price equal or lower than their current model in each category.............If you want to be a new car, come to grips with your self gratifying thoughs and hang on to your current one longer, if you NEED a new car buy a used one.......the dealers will make a few bucks but the automakers won't!!!!!
You can currently convert your existing car to 100% electric, the problem currently is still COST. Most pure electric cars or electric conversions sound really good, virtually any model of current vehicle can be converted to 100% electric and get 150-200 mile range at up to 85 miles per hour which is more than sufficient for 90% of American drivers 90% of the time (average american drives under 60 miles per day and with traffic you can never get to 65 let alone 85mph). Sounds great, drive it all day and never pay, plug in at night to drive another day! The problem is it is virtually impossible to get a conversion financed and most conversions companies are gouging customers because of demand and charging OVER $15,000 and even over $20,000 for EACH conversion....do the math people, even at $5 per gallon in a car that gets 30mpg over a 90,000 mile life span you will spend (is it no coincidence) $15,000 and you don't have to get a loan for the gas (yet) to keep your current gas guzzler as you are paying as you go.
Now the kicker, it has been estimated that for the car companies to MANUFACTURE the car as a pure electric instead of you buying a gas model and converting, it would cost LESS with mass production of the parts to build an electric drive train than the infernal combustion ones now being produced and you NEVER need an oil change, spark plug, filters, brakes (the electric uses the drive train for braking), repairs will be less as there are fewer moving parts to wear out, no seals or gaskets to replace, no cooling system so no anti-freeze, blown radiators, blown hoses, no timing belts, no serpentine belts, no fan belts (no fans), no fuel injectors, no fuel injector cleaning, no transmission fluid to replace no transmission to service...get the picture, NO REPAIR BILLS AND PARTS PROFITS FOR THE AUTOMAKERS....also ALL the car companies have heavy stock investments in the oil companies and many make MORE money with their oil stock profits then selling cars!
So suck it up folks as it just goes to show as usual, the rich get richer and the rest of the world is their BITCH!
The ONLY way to get oil and gas prices to come down is to quit buying it and the auto manufactures won't change the kind of cars they make until we quit buying them too....that means bite the big one and get rid of your 15mpg gas hog status symbol suvs and buy something that uses less gas.........hey here's a thought why don't we all QUIT BUYING ANY new cars until the car manufactures come out with a COMPARABLY priced line of pure electrics. I would be willing to bet if car sales went down even 50% and stayed down for several months in a row the automakers would quickly market a line of 100% electric cars in each product category at a price equal or lower than their current model in each category.............If you want to be a new car, come to grips with your self gratifying thoughs and hang on to your current one longer, if you NEED a new car buy a used one.......the dealers will make a few bucks but the automakers won't!!!!!
You can currently convert your existing car to 100% electric, the problem currently is still COST. Most pure electric cars or electric conversions sound really good, virtually any model of current vehicle can be converted to 100% electric and get 150-200 mile range at up to 85 miles per hour which is more than sufficient for 90% of American drivers 90% of the time (average american drives under 60 miles per day and with traffic you can never get to 65 let alone 85mph). Sounds great, drive it all day and never pay, plug in at night to drive another day! The problem is it is virtually impossible to get a conversion financed and most conversions companies are gouging customers because of demand and charging OVER $15,000 and even over $20,000 for EACH conversion....do the math people, even at $5 per gallon in a car that gets 30mpg over a 90,000 mile life span you will spend (is it no coincidence) $15,000 and you don't have to get a loan for the gas (yet) to keep your current gas guzzler as you are paying as you go.
Now the kicker, it has been estimated that for the car companies to MANUFACTURE the car as a pure electric instead of you buying a gas model and converting, it would cost LESS with mass production of the parts to build an electric drive train than the infernal combustion ones now being produced and you NEVER need an oil change, spark plug, filters, brakes (the electric uses the drive train for braking), repairs will be less as there are fewer moving parts to wear out, no seals or gaskets to replace, no cooling system so no anti-freeze, blown radiators, blown hoses, no timing belts, no serpentine belts, no fan belts (no fans), no fuel injectors, no fuel injector cleaning, no transmission fluid to replace no transmission to service...get the picture, NO REPAIR BILLS AND PARTS PROFITS FOR THE AUTOMAKERS....also ALL the car companies have heavy stock investments in the oil companies and many make MORE money with their oil stock profits then selling cars!
So suck it up folks as it just goes to show as usual, the rich get richer and the rest of the world is their BITCH!
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 2:16 am
DJ Cyder
dj-e-lectric wrote :
Forget all the crap, misinformation, media hype, statistics and bullsh*t....gas is at the price it is because WE will pay for it and the oil and gas industry know it and they will continue their greedy increases BECAUSE THEY CAN.
This is wrong, the reason is because the price is being unatually inflated on the futures market, it has very little to do with "big oil" Also don't forget that 45% of the price of gas is taxes.
Quote :
The ONLY way to get oil and gas prices to come down is to quit buying it...that means bite the big one and get rid of your 15mpg gas hog status symbol suvs and buy something that uses less gas......hey here's a though QUITE buying ANY new cars until the car manufactures come out with a COMPARABLY priced line of pure electrics.
The ONLY way to get oil and gas prices to come down is to quit buying it...that means bite the big one and get rid of your 15mpg gas hog status symbol suvs and buy something that uses less gas......hey here's a though QUITE buying ANY new cars until the car manufactures come out with a COMPARABLY priced line of pure electrics.
Do you work for Al Gore? This is a pipe dream most likely thought up by someone not considering all angles, 2/3 of the 20% of the worlds oil used by the US is used for trasportation 2/3 of that is used to move goods like food. Maybe you should talk to the truckers about this, because for the first time, the cost of fuel is more then the cost of labor.
Quote :
Sounds great, drive it all day and never pay, plug in at night to drive another day! The problem is it is virtually impossible to get a conversion financed and most conversions cost OVER $15,000....do the math people, even at $5 per gallon in a car that gets 30mpg over a 90,000 mile life span you will spend (is it no coincidence) $15,000 and you don't have to get a loan for the gas (yet) as you are paying as you go.
Sounds great, drive it all day and never pay, plug in at night to drive another day! The problem is it is virtually impossible to get a conversion financed and most conversions cost OVER $15,000....do the math people, even at $5 per gallon in a car that gets 30mpg over a 90,000 mile life span you will spend (is it no coincidence) $15,000 and you don't have to get a loan for the gas (yet) as you are paying as you go.
This is another short sided argument, the fact you never pay is wrong and if Al gore was here today he'd tell you are trading one form of pollution for another, and to put more stress on an already antique power grid is that a really good idea? Sorry you can't plug your car in today we are having rolling blackouts. So you do pay, its just a higher electric bill this time. Now What do you think will happen to the price of electricity when demand starts spiraling up?
Quote :
Now the kicker, it has been estimated that for the car companies to MANUFACTURE the car as a pure electric instead of you buying a gas model and converting, it would cost LESS with mass production of the parts to build an electric drive train than the infernal combustion ones now being produced and you NEVER need an oil change, spark plug, filters, brakes (the electric uses the drive train for braking), repairs will be less as there are fewer moving parts to wear out, no seals or gaskets to replace, no cooling system so no anti-freeze, blown radiators, blown hoses, no timing belts, no serpentine belts, no fan belts (no fans),...get the picture, NO REPAIR BILL AND PARTS PROFITS FOR THE AUTOMAKERS....also ALL the car companies have heavy stock investments in the oil companies and many make MORE money with their oil stock profits then selling cars!
Now the kicker, it has been estimated that for the car companies to MANUFACTURE the car as a pure electric instead of you buying a gas model and converting, it would cost LESS with mass production of the parts to build an electric drive train than the infernal combustion ones now being produced and you NEVER need an oil change, spark plug, filters, brakes (the electric uses the drive train for braking), repairs will be less as there are fewer moving parts to wear out, no seals or gaskets to replace, no cooling system so no anti-freeze, blown radiators, blown hoses, no timing belts, no serpentine belts, no fan belts (no fans),...get the picture, NO REPAIR BILL AND PARTS PROFITS FOR THE AUTOMAKERS....also ALL the car companies have heavy stock investments in the oil companies and many make MORE money with their oil stock profits then selling cars!
Wrong again, what do these electric cars store their juice in? Batteries. This is one technology that is lagging far behind, in 1996 GM produced the EV-1 it was later recalled for problems mostly to do with the batteries which we still lead acid at the time. Sorry I just don't think in terms of current technology the electric car is ready for prime time.
I find this thread mildly entertaining so please lets keep this one going. Post up your solutions to the worlds problems here.
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 3:12 am
dj-e-lectric
DJ Cyder wrote :
This is wrong, the reason is because the price is being unatually inflated on the futures market, it has very little to do with "big oil" Also don't forget that 45% of the price of gas is taxes.
Do you work for Al Gore? This is a pipe dream most likely thought up by someone not considering all angles, 2/3 of the 20% of the worlds oil used by the US is used for trasportation 2/3 of that is used to move goods like food. Maybe you should talk to the truckers about this, because for the first time, the cost of fuel is more then the cost of labor.
[quote]
Sounds great, drive it all day and never pay, plug in at night to drive another day! The problem is it is virtually impossible to get a conversion financed and most conversions cost OVER $15,000....do the math people, even at $5 per gallon in a car that gets 30mpg over a 90,000 mile life span you will spend (is it no coincidence) $15,000 and you don't have to get a loan for the gas (yet) as you are paying as you go.
dj-e-lectric wrote :
Forget all the crap, misinformation, media hype, statistics and bullsh*t....gas is at the price it is because WE will pay for it and the oil and gas industry know it and they will continue their greedy increases BECAUSE THEY CAN.
This is wrong, the reason is because the price is being unatually inflated on the futures market, it has very little to do with "big oil" Also don't forget that 45% of the price of gas is taxes.
Quote :
The ONLY way to get oil and gas prices to come down is to quit buying it...that means bite the big one and get rid of your 15mpg gas hog status symbol suvs and buy something that uses less gas......hey here's a though QUITE buying ANY new cars until the car manufactures come out with a COMPARABLY priced line of pure electrics.
The ONLY way to get oil and gas prices to come down is to quit buying it...that means bite the big one and get rid of your 15mpg gas hog status symbol suvs and buy something that uses less gas......hey here's a though QUITE buying ANY new cars until the car manufactures come out with a COMPARABLY priced line of pure electrics.
Do you work for Al Gore? This is a pipe dream most likely thought up by someone not considering all angles, 2/3 of the 20% of the worlds oil used by the US is used for trasportation 2/3 of that is used to move goods like food. Maybe you should talk to the truckers about this, because for the first time, the cost of fuel is more then the cost of labor.
[quote]
Sounds great, drive it all day and never pay, plug in at night to drive another day! The problem is it is virtually impossible to get a conversion financed and most conversions cost OVER $15,000....do the math people, even at $5 per gallon in a car that gets 30mpg over a 90,000 mile life span you will spend (is it no coincidence) $15,000 and you don't have to get a loan for the gas (yet) as you are paying as you go.
This is another short sided argument, the fact you never pay is wrong and if Al gore was here today he'd tell you are trading one form of pollution for another, and to put more stress on an already antique power grid is that a really good idea? Sorry you can't plug your car in today we are having rolling blackouts. So you do pay, its just a higher electric bill this time. Now What do you think will happen to the price of electricity when demand starts spiraling up?
Quote :
Now the kicker, it has been estimated that for the car companies to MANUFACTURE the car as a pure electric instead of you buying a gas model and converting, it would cost LESS with mass production of the parts to build an electric drive train than the infernal combustion ones now being produced and you NEVER need an oil change, spark plug, filters, brakes (the electric uses the drive train for braking), repairs will be less as there are fewer moving parts to wear out, no seals or gaskets to replace, no cooling system so no anti-freeze, blown radiators, blown hoses, no timing belts, no serpentine belts, no fan belts (no fans),...get the picture, NO REPAIR BILL AND PARTS PROFITS FOR THE AUTOMAKERS....also ALL the car companies have heavy stock investments in the oil companies and many make MORE money with their oil stock profits then selling cars!
Now the kicker, it has been estimated that for the car companies to MANUFACTURE the car as a pure electric instead of you buying a gas model and converting, it would cost LESS with mass production of the parts to build an electric drive train than the infernal combustion ones now being produced and you NEVER need an oil change, spark plug, filters, brakes (the electric uses the drive train for braking), repairs will be less as there are fewer moving parts to wear out, no seals or gaskets to replace, no cooling system so no anti-freeze, blown radiators, blown hoses, no timing belts, no serpentine belts, no fan belts (no fans),...get the picture, NO REPAIR BILL AND PARTS PROFITS FOR THE AUTOMAKERS....also ALL the car companies have heavy stock investments in the oil companies and many make MORE money with their oil stock profits then selling cars!
Wrong again, what do these electric cars store their juice in? Batteries. This is one technology that is lagging far behind, in 1996 GM produced the EV-1 it was later recalled for problems mostly to do with the batteries which we still lead acid at the time. Sorry I just don't think in terms of current technology the electric car is ready for prime time.
I find this thread mildly entertaining so please lets keep this one going. Post up your solutions to the worlds problems here.[/quote]
WOW are you ever a propoganda spokesperson for the rich and out of touch with common man politician!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. The price can only be inflated if the purchaser of the futures thinks they will be able to sell it at an even more inflated price to make a profit, if it aint being used their is no market for it and they can't sell it so to them it is worth less so they pay less, etc., etc., etc.......
2. I think Al Gore is a hypocritical lying sack of sh*t like the rest of the super rich politicians; however, As private citizens we can only control what WE do, if WE want to spend less on gas WE need to use less and the easiest way to use less is to either drive less or get a vehicle with better gas milage.
If you can afford it by all means buy it, use it, abuse it and don't care about those that can't afford it think about it that's what having money is all about and that's why some people drive mercedes and some of us have kia mini-vans. The point here is what sacrifices as a SOCIETY must be made to drive the cost down, not whether there is enough people who are actually willing to make those sacrifices rather than just complain about it.
I am also talking strickly about the cost of GAS not diesel, I am fully aware how much the cost of diesel effects ALL costs in the market place everytime I go to the store (assuming I have any money left to buy anything after filling my tank with gas to get there).
3. Didn't mean NEVER pay, meant never pay at the pump...as far as the grid I also think ALL new construction should mandated to install FULL solar / alternative electric so we will all be virtually off the grid in a few decades. They did a study in Phoenix that if the 100,000 new homes built between 2002-2007 had full solar the average cost of the home would have been only $10,000 to $15,000 more that it was (in a hugely inflated market already) and the city would now be saving enough power to SHUT DOWN the Palo Verde Nuclear Plant.....that $15,000 in solar cost EASILY is paid back in a few years with no electric bills...........so the combination of NO ELECTRIC and NO GAS would save the average arizonan over $500 per month!!!!!!!!!!!!! More than offsetting the cost of the new solar payments and the electric car. These savings will also increase with each new development as solar product cost comes down and efficiency goes up with mass production and a consistant market.
4. Don't even get me started on the EV-1, it wasn't scapped because it wasn't viable. It was scrapped for several reasons (not the least of which is that it was TOO good and the oil companies and oil company controlled fund investers would never allow it at their profit levels (and as you stated nobody cared because gas was cheap then)...also todays battery technology is as much as 10 times more efficient (read up on the ESS systems that are replacing batteries). Your current vehicle (no matter what you drive) can be converted to full electric and get well over 100 miles per charge at over 80mph, most people never come close to either of those numbers intheir daily lives but they are brainwashed to think they NEED a car to go from LA to NY without a charge, when you NEED to take a trip then you can rent a gas car but for 350 days of each year of your life 100 miles is more than sufficient.
If speed is your thing check out the Tesla full electric sports car that does 170mph and get 100 miles per charge at that speed!!!!
5. The following link is all you need to know about why car manufactures don't have efficient cars let alone state of the art electrics http://www.ev1.org/gmoil.htm
I agree there are great ideas coming through this thread but there will always be two things that hold the world back from living peacefully, properly and fairly....two few people that control tooo much money (and the power that goes with it) and that the rest of the 99% of the world can never agree to get off their butts and do something in an organised, cooperative timely manner.
I just hope I don't see it all go completely to helll while I'm still around
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 4:48 am
Bren F
I'm at work so I can't contribute much with this post, but what I would like to say is that we can't keep bringing Al Gore into the debate every time "green" issues or climate change comes into the debate, he may not be a credible role model but that doesn't make the case for climate change/pollution/recycling etc any less potent, there are millions of other campaigners and leaders representing these important issues, and frankly more credible voices.
The U.S is famous for it's heroic denial of climate change (worldwide, but not alone), although I believe there are a number of experts in the U.S who are leading the way along side the U.K (an area where we specialise, and most believe in the case).
The U.S is famous for it's heroic denial of climate change (worldwide, but not alone), although I believe there are a number of experts in the U.S who are leading the way along side the U.K (an area where we specialise, and most believe in the case).
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 5:19 am
DJ Cyder
Quote :
WOW are you ever a propoganda spokesperson for the rich and out of touch with common man politician!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW are you ever a propoganda spokesperson for the rich and out of touch with common man politician!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry no the democrats have one of those those though, his name is Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.
Quote :
1. The price can only be inflated if the purchaser of the futures thinks they will be able to sell it at an even more inflated price to make a profit, if it aint being used their is no market for it and they can't sell it so to them it is worth less so they pay less, etc., etc., etc.......
1. The price can only be inflated if the purchaser of the futures thinks they will be able to sell it at an even more inflated price to make a profit, if it aint being used their is no market for it and they can't sell it so to them it is worth less so they pay less, etc., etc., etc.......
The larger than expected increase in oil inventories put a brake on oil prices, for the moment. Oil rose just 30 cents to $122.14 per barrel in Wednesday morning trading. The other major energy commodities were also virtually unchanged. Unleaded gasoline gained 1 cent to $3.11 per gallon. Heating oil rose about 2 cents to $3.37 per gallon. Natural gas gain 2 cents to $11.15 per million BTUs.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/weekly_petroleum_status_report/current/txt/wpsr.txt
So what continues to drive the price up, since we can't say the supply is less then last week?
Quote :
2. I think Al Gore is a hypocritical lying sack of sh*t like the rest of the super rich politicians; however, As private citizens we can only control what WE do, if WE want to spend less on gas WE need to use less and the easiest way to use less is to either drive less or get a vehicle with better gas milage.
2. I think Al Gore is a hypocritical lying sack of sh*t like the rest of the super rich politicians; however, As private citizens we can only control what WE do, if WE want to spend less on gas WE need to use less and the easiest way to use less is to either drive less or get a vehicle with better gas milage.
Your saying I'm the one brain-washed? This is exactly the Gorein model do less use less live in misery.
Quote :
If you can afford it by all means buy it, use it, abuse it and don't care about those that can't afford it think about it that's what having money is all about and that's why some people drive mercedes and some of us have kia mini-vans. The point here is what sacrifices as a SOCIETY must be made to drive the cost down, not whether there is enough people who are actually willing to make those sacrifices rather than just complain about it.
If you can afford it by all means buy it, use it, abuse it and don't care about those that can't afford it think about it that's what having money is all about and that's why some people drive mercedes and some of us have kia mini-vans. The point here is what sacrifices as a SOCIETY must be made to drive the cost down, not whether there is enough people who are actually willing to make those sacrifices rather than just complain about it.
And I'm the one out of touch, I'd love to visit this perfect world you talk about. Society is not going to do this no matter how many tree hugger's are rallied.
Quote :
I am also talking strickly about the cost of GAS not diesel, I am fully aware how much the cost of diesel effects ALL costs in the market place everytime I go to the store (assuming I have any money left to buy anything after filling my tank with gas to get there).
I am also talking strickly about the cost of GAS not diesel, I am fully aware how much the cost of diesel effects ALL costs in the market place everytime I go to the store (assuming I have any money left to buy anything after filling my tank with gas to get there).
Again look at the report I linked to earlier in the thread. Supplies are up, why isn't the cost down?
Quote :
3. Didn't mean NEVER pay, meant never pay at the pump...as far as the grid I also think ALL new construction should mandated to install FULL solar / alternative electric so we will all be virtually off the grid in a few decades. They did a study in Phoenix that if the 100,000 new homes built between 2002-2007 had full solar the average cost of the home would have been only $10,000 to $15,000 more that it was (in a hugely inflated market already) and the city would now be saving enough power to SHUT DOWN the Palo Verde Nuclear Plant.....that $15,000 in solar cost EASILY is paid back in a few years with no electric bills
3. Didn't mean NEVER pay, meant never pay at the pump...as far as the grid I also think ALL new construction should mandated to install FULL solar / alternative electric so we will all be virtually off the grid in a few decades. They did a study in Phoenix that if the 100,000 new homes built between 2002-2007 had full solar the average cost of the home would have been only $10,000 to $15,000 more that it was (in a hugely inflated market already) and the city would now be saving enough power to SHUT DOWN the Palo Verde Nuclear Plant.....that $15,000 in solar cost EASILY is paid back in a few years with no electric bills
I got a little chuckle out of this and here is why. For wind power, the theoretical maximum efficiency is 59 percent, but most windmills achieve about 50 percent efficiency with very good land and wind conditions. The efficiency of solar energy--how much heat can be converted to electricity--is approximately 35 percent. So I hope you have a few 100 acres of land to power your house to be off the grid.
One reason wind and solar energy are so inefficient is because they require vast amounts of land. Wind power requires about 11 square feet of land to generate 4 watts of electricity--the amount needed to turn on a light bulb. To generate that same 4 watts of electricity, a natural gas plant requires 30 to 200 times less space.
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 8:28 am
Tear Em 'Up
dj-e-lectric wrote :
common man politician
Sorry, there is no such thing at the federal level. By the time they get there they have become corrupt. Look at Obama and his ties to The Weather Underground, Resco, and the Reverend Wright. And he is supposedly "clean", imagine what the "dirty" ones are like.......
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 8:39 am
DJ Cyder
What I want to know is how a freshman senator gets to run for president, and no one questions him at all.
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 8:43 am
Tim Bennett
We get a freshman senator running for President because he is the "cleanest of the dirty" as TearEmUp said. We as Americans are stuck voting for the lesser of two evils. Our politicians, democrat and republican, don't care about the people, they care about their paycheck, the one we give em and the one they get from big business or special interest groups or what have ya. Sad thing is, big business and special interest groups are made up of citizens, so they screw themselves as they screw us. But they get what they want in the short-term so they don't see the ill effects at the end.
It will take another depression or revolution to make a true change in the U.S. There is no visable, wide-spread suffering in this country so it's business as usual.
It is no longer "We the people..." it's me and mine.
It will take another depression or revolution to make a true change in the U.S. There is no visable, wide-spread suffering in this country so it's business as usual.
It is no longer "We the people..." it's me and mine.
发表时间 Thu 08 May 08 @ 10:30 am
