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Forum: VirtualDJ Plugins

话题: DAC3 Mapper Questions!

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I finally have arranged for work to have use of a DAC3!
I am completely blown away with all the features of the mapper the JPBoggis has put together, so much so I'm a little scared of it!
Unfortunatly I don't have it at home here to play with it, and only having a quick play with it at work, has left me with a few questions (and some stress) before having to use it live tomorrow night!!

My main query is in regards to the video mixing, as most would know I have been using a DAC2, and gotten very used to the single button on each deck for video transitions. A hold performs a transition, and tap creates a switch. I have been a busy beaver tonight reading the book (Manual that came with the mapper) trying to think of all the buttons on the DAC2, and what button, or buttons I will need to learn to use on the DAC3. My main concerns are on the FX triggering (FX Button on DAC2), Loop setting, and video transitions.

On the DAC2 i always checked (well allmost) the showing FX before hitting the activate button on the DAC2 (FX). On the DAC3 I need to go in to FX mode, then activate the FX from there using IN, OUT and RELOOP. Then remeber to exit FX mode again. I seem to get caught out on two levels here, no 1 is not being able to remember what FX No's are what, and no 2 is that I can't hit the buttons fast enough before the "moment" has passed. Is there a short cut to simply activate the "Selected" FX, without entering the FX mode?

Loop functions on the DAC2 have three buttons, up, down and "Go" really. I can't seem to set myself on a mode to set the 10 cue buttons, where I can work out that button is going to fire what loop. Is there a way of preselecting a loop size on the DAC3 screen first, the a button to fire it at will? I suspect that I will proberly use the cue buttons for sampler fire buttone, use mode 5. then just use shift+cue buttons for set and CP and cue buttons for goto cue.
I also found user settings 44-47 a little confusing in the manual, as it suggests 1-10 options, default say 5, but there is only 5 options not ten, or do you need to set the option (1-5) for each of the 10 buttons seperatly?

I think I may have have some ideas with the video transitions section from the manual, but without a DAC3 here am unsure of the SHIFT + PLAY and CP + PLAY functions. I am unable to use auto transition in VDJ 4,2 as when beatmixing I may press play on the new track 5 or more times before I find the spot where I want to mix the track in. I really don't want everone seeing this on the screens. SHIFT + PLAY looks good, but I dont want to pause the track (As this combo starts the track AND does the video trans) as it is already running. I am also a little scared of anything that uses the play button on my live track, as if you miss the SHIFT button (Just pressing play after you have mixed the new track in), you will get no trans, and the song will simply stop! CP + MIX NOW looks intresting, but exactly what does it do? What side does it mix to. Having the same button combo to automatically video mix would be awesome, as long as it's not the auto trans from VDJ its self, unless it automatically turns it's self of after say 10 seconds or so to stop people seeing me cue the next track. There are so many options on the video crossfade page of the manual, I know there must be one in there for me! =)

The other suggestions I came up with were,
Option to stop Match from auto starting the track, for those of us that have gotten into a bad habbit of loading a track, the hitting the match button 50 times before even wanting to start the track!

Stop the time display its self flashing with the "End of track" warning, as the screen contrast sometimes means that you cannot read the remaining time because its flashing. Just flash the progress bar, or perhaps LEDs, or maybe alternate flashing between CUE and PLAY buttons. Perhaps even leave PLAY lit, but flash the CUE button with the progress bar (My favorite!), as the fast flashing red button on the dac should be a great warning, even from afar.

Thanks in advance =)
 
发表时间 Thu 08 Mar 07 @ 12:29 pm
Hi,

I use the DAC-3 for work, the mapper really is good isn't it!!!

Anyways, it can get a bit confusing with all the different modes, but say you want to activate VDJ's automatic transitions, you can hold down APPLY and then press RELOOP, this doesn't put you into the video effects mode fully, but lets's you access the different functions.

That works with any of the modes, so if you want to start a sound effect you can hold down FX and press IN to trigger the first effect instead of pressing FX to take you to the effects mode then pressing IN and pressing FX again to take you back to the browser. Hope that made sense!

Most of the time I end up pressing holding down SHIFT while pressing PLAY (when I remember) to crossfade between the two videos. If I forget or like you, am not sure exactly when I'm going to start the mix, I press play as normal, then when I want to crossfade I hold down SHIFT and press LOAD on either deck. That crossfades in the usual way.

Hope that helps a bit :)
 
发表时间 Thu 08 Mar 07 @ 3:43 pm
halo_djk wrote :

Unfortunatly I don't have it at home here to play with it, and only having a quick play with it at work, has left me with a few questions (and some stress) before having to use it live tomorrow night!!


There is a bit of a learning curve to begin with (Especially if you have used another controller), but the basic controls are quite straight-forward. It's a shame that you haven't got it at home to have a play around with and learn in a non-live environment.

halo_djk wrote :

On the DAC2 i always checked (well allmost) the showing FX before hitting the activate button on the DAC2 (FX). On the DAC3 I need to go in to FX mode, then activate the FX from there using IN, OUT and RELOOP. Then remeber to exit FX mode again. I seem to get caught out on two levels here, no 1 is not being able to remember what FX No's are what, and no 2 is that I can't hit the buttons fast enough before the "moment" has passed. Is there a short cut to simply activate the "Selected" FX, without entering the FX mode?


IN, OUT and RELOOP are slots that any effect can be assigned to (By default, #1, #2 and #3 in the on-screen VDJ list.) These work similar to the old 3 slots in VDJ 3.x

To change the assigned effect, go into FX mode, press SHIFT+IN/OUT/RELOOP to choose the appropriate slot (Without triggering the assigned effect) and then use UP/DOWN to select appropriate the effect. Press IN/OUT/RELOOP to trigger the assigned effects.

You can also directly trigger FX #1-#10 in the list using the 1-10 buttons (This doesn't affect effects assigned to IN/OUT/RELOOP)

All of the above can also be triggered from outside of FX mode too, by holding FX and pressing the appropriate button (E.g: FX+IN)

For FX triggering similar to what you were used to, try using FX+UP and FX+DOWN to change the effect and FX+IN to trigger it (Assuming that's the current selected FX slot - If not, press FX+SHIFT+IN to select.)

NOTE: By default, the mapper allows multiple FX to be triggered, so the on-screen VDJ drop-down lists may not update. You will need to watch the VDJ effect menu screen to see which effect has been selected or turn off multiple effects via user parameters.

halo_djk wrote :
Loop functions on the DAC2 have three buttons, up, down and "Go" really. I can't seem to set myself on a mode to set the 10 cue buttons, where I can work out that button is going to fire what loop. Is there a way of preselecting a loop size on the DAC3 screen first, the a button to fire it at will?


You can't preset/select a loop length with the DAC-3 mapper, but you shouldn't need to because you can trigger beat loops of various lengths directly using the numbered buttons or manual loops using IN/OUT/RELOOP.

By default, 1-4 are hotcues and 5-10 trigger loops of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 and 32 beats. Holding CP + 5-10 will trigger loops of twice those lengths.

halo_djk wrote :
I also found user settings 44-47 a little confusing in the manual, as it suggests 1-10 options, default say 5, but there is only 5 options not ten, or do you need to set the option (1-5) for each of the 10 buttons seperatly?


Parameters 44-47 set the behaviour of the buttons 1-10 and when CP and/or SHIFT are held in combination with them. I.e: If you wanted 1-10 on their own to trigger loops (Rather than hotcues + loops), you could set parameter 44 to 4.

halo_djk wrote :
CP + MIX NOW looks intresting, but exactly what does it do?


It instantly video crossfades to the centre position (I.e: You will see the video output of BOTH decks.)

Press SHIFT+LOAD on the appropriate side to automatically crossfade to that side, or CP+LOAD to instantly crossfade.

halo_djk wrote :
Option to stop Match from auto starting the track, for those of us that have gotten into a bad habbit of loading a track, the hitting the match button 50 times before even wanting to start the track!


This is already implemented for the next update, but that is still unfinished beta. I don't have time to finish it at the moment due to another project of higher importance (Not related to DAC-3.)

halo_djk wrote :

Stop the time display its self flashing with the "End of track" warning, as the screen contrast sometimes means that you cannot read the remaining time because its flashing. Just flash the progress bar, or perhaps LEDs, or maybe alternate flashing between CUE and PLAY buttons. Perhaps even leave PLAY lit, but flash the CUE button with the progress bar (My favorite!), as the fast flashing red button on the dac should be a great warning, even from afar.


This could be added as option, but for now, you could try adjusting the flash speeds via user parameters (35 and 37) or even disable the flash altogether if you wish (Set to 0)
 
发表时间 Thu 08 Mar 07 @ 8:00 pm
Thanks for all the tips, it was a great help, and the SHIFT-LOAD trick saved my skin, however I did have some problems.

The SHIFT-LOAD and CP-LOAD combo didn't fade the videos from one to the other, it "Switched" them, meaning my transitions didn't happen, they just switched from player to player. I also found that it didn't matter what load button i pressed, it always switched from where ever it was, to the other side, not switching 'To" the side I had pressed the load button on. I tried both CP and SHIFT for the alternative transition speed, but both options "Switched" instead of fading them. I remember the manual saying there was a default fade time for both the main fade, and the alternative fade. I have left them at default thinking there would be "Some" form of fade, even if it was too fast or slow (Normal defalut at option 39 is 4, and alternative at option 40 is 16), but both just seemed to switch them. is this correct? Is it possable to make the load for left switch to left, and the load button for right switch to right. The way it is at the moment, you need to refer back to the computer screen to check what side you have switched to?

I also found that while LOOP was active, the LOOP display on the DAC screen was sort of randomly flashing, sometimes so bad I couldn't tell if I had exited the loop (Or entered it) as I had just intended with a button press.

I'm not sure if this is my DAC3 or my set up, but found many times that on pressing a button, the keystroke had been ignored, and I'd have to press it again, sometimes three times. Most commonly the CUE button, but sometimes the PLAY button, and quite a few times the loop cue buttons, and the OUT buttons, this combined with the flashing loop indicator, I found myself stuck in a loop (as I had pressed OUT, but the loop had not exited), and had no idea, untill the punters started looking at me strangly! =)

For some reason I also found that somtimes (about 3 times) when the track had finished by it's self that although the dac3 was showing the song had ended, the VDJ screen was sort of showing the last few moments of the track was repeating, perhaps just a few frames, this was a bit scary, and have only seen this since I started using the DAC3.

The flashing end of track indicator on the LCD was quite a problem, I tried slowing it down, but found then it was in the "Off" state for that long I couldn't use it to tell where the end of the track was, then having to refer back to the DJ Screen, to be able to read the screen. Speeding it up brought back the old problem of the LCD not refreshing fast enough during the flashing, making the whole time display just a mess of half lit digits. Unfortunatly I really can't turn this feature off, as if I'm dealing with a customer (Requests ect) at the DJ Booth doorway, I cant read the remaining time on the screens, and rely on this flashing indicator to tell me to get back to the computer because the song "Really" is ending soon.

The progress bar has taken a little getting used to as it clears from the right to the left, as a pose to left to right, i would be forever thankful if this cleared from left to right, if its not too difficult too add to the code, as looking quickly at the dac, and the progress bar on more than one song left me with a fright, becaue the right end of the progress bar was blank, and I though I only had a few seconds to find a new track, and load and mix it. I guess this would be an issue for anyone comming from a DAC2 to a DAC3 (the dac2 clears from left to right). Perhaps an option in user config to clear from left to right, or right to left would be helpful.

I hope all this isn't taken as complaints, just giveing my feedback as to what I'm finding while using the mapper.

Kym
 
发表时间 Sat 10 Mar 07 @ 9:59 am
halo_djk wrote :
The SHIFT-LOAD and CP-LOAD combo didn't fade the videos from one to the other, it "Switched" them, meaning my transitions didn't happen, they just switched from player to player.


CP+ will always do an instant switch. SHIFT+ does a smooth transition (Depending on the time you have set in user parameters - The default is 4 beats I think.)

Check which video transition you are using - E.g: cut switches only rather than a smooth transition.

halo_djk wrote :
I also found that it didn't matter what load button i pressed, it always switched from where ever it was, to the other side, not switching 'To" the side I had pressed the load button on.


It will fade/switch to the side you pressed it on providing it isn't already fading to that side. If it's fading to that side or already faded there, it will fade to the opposite side (Multiple presses can be used to 'bounce' the fader in either direction.)

halo_djk wrote :
I also found that while LOOP was active, the LOOP display on the DAC screen was sort of randomly flashing, sometimes so bad I couldn't tell if I had exited the loop (Or entered it) as I had just intended with a button press.


LOOP flashes each time the song loops. I.e: A very short loop will result in it flashing non-stop. You can see the status of the loop with the LED's above the buttons - IN = Loop in set, OUT = OUT set and loop active. The LED's flash each time the loop loops.

halo_djk wrote :
I'm not sure if this is my DAC3 or my set up, but found many times that on pressing a button, the keystroke had been ignored, and I'd have to press it again, sometimes three times. Most commonly the CUE button, but sometimes the PLAY button, and quite a few times the loop cue buttons, and the OUT buttons


Unfortunately, this is a common fault with the DAC-3 buttons. It most commonly happens with the PLAY/CUE buttons (Because they are used the most.) There are two solutions - Send the DAC-3 back for a replacement or take it apart and spray lubricating spray (As used for cleaning noisy faders/crossfaders on mixers) into the faulty buttons and work it in by pressing them lots of times. Repeat the procedure a couple of times for all buttons before re-assembling. The buttons will then work like new. Having done this once, I have not had to repeat it on my DAC-3 (It's worked great ever since.)

halo_djk wrote :
For some reason I also found that somtimes (about 3 times) when the track had finished by it's self that although the dac3 was showing the song had ended, the VDJ screen was sort of showing the last few moments of the track was repeating, perhaps just a few frames, this was a bit scary, and have only seen this since I started using the DAC3.


I've never seen this before. The DAC-3 doesn't control actual playback at all (Unlike TCV/TCCD's) - It simply sends shortcuts to VDJ to tell it to start or stop playing (Similar to keyboard/MIDI.)

halo_djk wrote :
The flashing end of track indicator on the LCD was quite a problem, I tried slowing it down, but found then it was in the "Off" state for that long I couldn't use it to tell where the end of the track was, then having to refer back to the DJ Screen, to be able to read the screen.


It wouldn't be too difficult to change it so that it optionally only flashes the progress bar, but at present I don't have time to do this (It's only a small change, but the mapper is in beta state at the moment and the other new features will take longer to finish off and test.)

halo_djk wrote :
I cant read the remaining time on the screens, and rely on this flashing indicator to tell me to get back to the computer because the song "Really" is ending soon.


You should use the flashing as a visual prompt that the song is about to end. You should be able to this by ear anyway if you know the song and aren't being distracted too much. As soon as the display starts flashing you know its time to go back to the console and mix the next song in.

halo_djk wrote :
The progress bar has taken a little getting used to as it clears from the right to the left, as a pose to left to right


Unfortunately, this is a limitation of the DAC-3 driver - The progress bar can be set to a value 0 - 10, which illuminates the appropriate number of segments starting from the left-hand side. You can't address the segments individually. Otherwise, I would have made the progress bar display as you described for time remaining.


I have made a note of some of your comment about the flashing time display and will add an option to apply this only to the progress bar in a future version of the mapper (1.5 once it has been completed.)
 
发表时间 Sun 11 Mar 07 @ 9:29 pm
Quote :
Unfortunately, this is a common fault with the DAC-3 buttons. It most commonly happens with the PLAY/CUE buttons (Because they are used the most.) There are two solutions - Send the DAC-3 back for a replacement or take it apart and spray lubricating spray (As used for cleaning noisy faders/crossfaders on mixers) into the faulty buttons and work it in by pressing them lots of times. Repeat the procedure a couple of times for all buttons before re-assembling.


I'm afraid this is a brand new dac3, surly I dont have 5 icky buttons? It almost seems to me that the DAC3 needs a longer press for the keys to activate. Thus the issue with play pause, as these are buttons you commonly "Stab" right at the correct point.

Quote :
It will fade/switch to the side you pressed it on providing it isn't already fading to that side. If it's fading to that side or already faded there, it will fade to the opposite side (Multiple presses can be used to 'bounce' the fader in either direction.)


Does'nt that mean it really doesnt matter what side you press it will swap for whereever, to whereever. I think ive gotten to used to the single button on each sise, it seems that instead of checking to see if i have video switched to ther newly mixed track, I used to just re-hit the video button for the side that is just mixed in. If i do that now, (after i have already crossfaded across) it crossfades across to a deck thats doing nothing.

Quote :
CP+ will always do an instant switch. SHIFT+ does a smooth transition (Depending on the time you have set in user parameters - The default is 4 beats I think.)

I have always been doing a CP+Load, mainly because that is the only combo i can do with one hand. I did try SHIFT+LOAD at the first get go, ahhh but from memory no song was playing, I was checking the fade speeds, perhaps even with nothing loaded. Will try again with a song playing. What side does the mapper get its crossfade speed from? Some of my Urban tracks show as 175 BPM and I really wouldn't want a 4 beat fade for these tracks, moreso becaues they are actually slow tracks. Any chance of a -99 to 0 option for beat speed reliant crossfading, and 0 to +99 for non beat reliant fading, ie you would then just be able to set "Set" speeds, a normal and a slow perhaps.

Thanks

Kym
 
发表时间 Mon 12 Mar 07 @ 4:01 am
halo_djk wrote :
I'm afraid this is a brand new dac3, surly I dont have 5 icky buttons? It almost seems to me that the DAC3 needs a longer press for the keys to activate. Thus the issue with play pause, as these are buttons you commonly "Stab" right at the correct point.


It sounds like you may have a faulty DAC-3 - A brand new DAC-3 shouldn't have this problem and I would have thought that this would have been resolved by now anyway in the latest production units. The problem doesn't affect everyone and usually only occurs after several months of regular use. On a properly working DAC-3, the PLAY/CUE should respond instantly and reliably every time they are pressed.

Mine (I purchased it when DAC-3's first came out) has worked flawlessly since lubricating the buttons.

halo_djk wrote :
Does'nt that mean it really doesnt matter what side you press it will swap for whereever, to whereever. I think ive gotten to used to the single button on each sise, it seems that instead of checking to see if i have video switched to ther newly mixed track, I used to just re-hit the video button for the side that is just mixed in. If i do that now, (after i have already crossfaded across) it crossfades across to a deck thats doing nothing.


If it's already faded to that side, SHIFT/CP+LOAD will 'bounce' to the other. This could also be changed too with an option in the next version to disable the 'bounce'.

I'd recommend either always pressing SHIFT+PLAY to start playback and fade the video, or always fade the video after a normal PLAY by pressing SHIFT+LOAD when you're ready (If faded to one side, the 'bounce' feature will fade it to the other.)

halo_djk wrote :
I have always been doing a CP+Load, mainly because that is the only combo i can do with one hand. I did try SHIFT+LOAD at the first get go,


CP+LOAD always does an instant crossfade. SHIFT or CP on either side can be used, so you could try using right SHIFT + left PLAY to bounce between the two sides.

halo_djk wrote :
IWhat side does the mapper get its crossfade speed from?


Presently it uses the BPM of the side that you pressed the fade button on (If the two sides are matched, this won't make any difference, but if you're not beat matching and just fading in the next song (Or usnig an effect to transition from one to the next), setting the crossfade to a time in seconds might be more useful to you.)

halo_djk wrote :
IAny chance of a -99 to 0 option for beat speed reliant crossfading, and 0 to +99 for non beat reliant fading,


You can already do that - Setting the crossfading speed (Via user parameter 39) to a negative value will perform a crossfade in the given number of seconds rather than beats (E.g: -4 = 4 seconds, +4 = 4 beats.)

NOTE: Alternative crossfading speed (40) is an alternative speed that will be used when holding down CP+SHIFT+PLAY or CP+SHIFT+LOAD, etc.
 
发表时间 Mon 12 Mar 07 @ 7:50 pm
Boggis, Do you play audio only, or videos with your DAC3? I have a post in bugs regarding the missing key-presses in the bugs forum that you may be able to help with.

Thanks
 
发表时间 Thu 15 Mar 07 @ 3:45 am
I mainly play audio only, but the video side has been quite heavily tested during development of the mapper. Also, there are others using the DAC-3 for video mixing and have not reported any problems like this. I will try your video test and see if I get any problems. Are you able to try your DAC-3 on another computer?
 
发表时间 Thu 15 Mar 07 @ 7:37 pm
At this point I have tried two dacs on my show pc. I will have the dac 3 here here for a few days over the weekend, so I will try it on my desktop too to see the results. I did see some older posts in the hardware forum that show some other people have had this issue too.
 
发表时间 Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 3:04 am


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