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Forum: Old versions

Topic: Problems keeping tempo sync in rewire mode. - Page: 2

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Hello,
What is your version of Reason ?
Since Reason 5, this problem is knowned, 'on some computer only' like Propellerheads says...
Same with Reason 6. Now I have the 6.5 release, I have to try again.
I wanted to sync Reason (rewire to Live) with Reaper (on an other computer).
I'll come back when tested.
David
 
groovindj wrote :
Then please enlighten me on exactly what I\'ve said that\'s incorrect.

I\'m always willing to learn.

Why do you think that a VDJ deck should be able to sync to the audio coming from Reason?


I think you forget VDJ will sync in two different ways................1 being that it uses the grid and 2 it will match the tempo of the other track (which is how I beleive it sycns from a line-in)
As you can see in my picture I have deck 4 as my MASTER deck (playing) and I hit sync on deck 1 and it matched up to deck 4 which is the deck I have REASON playing through.........NOW I drop the beat in myself so it does match up..........but if I tried to use "Sync_play" I dont think itd work cause there is no grid for it to match up too..............



Alls I can say is to try it yourself and youll see it VDJ will MATCH the BPM of the REWIRED deck, now yes mine does fall out of sync but not as fast as the OP.............
 
.....but as both you and the OP have said, it doesn't stay there! There's nothing for it to lock to, because the LineIn has no CBG.

And also as I keep saying, you're creating a loop by doing that. ReWire is one way - Master->Slave.

You've already made that connection by running Reason as a slave to VDJ. Now you're trying to slave VDJ back to Reason. You can't!
 
If the Tempo's match what does the grid have anything to do with it???
 
To the best of my knowledge (and from what I can find here and in the VDJ manual) VDJ only syncs by means of the CBG.

This is why every song that VDJ plays needs to be analysed. Either by selecting analysis in the browser or when it gets loaded to a deck.

There's no way to play a song in VDJ without it getting analysed to create the CBG.

This is reinforced by the fact that you can't simply load a drum beat sample into a sample slot and have VDJ keep it in sync........because it hasn't been analysed and there's no CBG. It needs to be loaded to a deck first (which creates the CBG).

So......based on all that, how is a VDJ deck going to sync to a line input? There's no CBG. There can't be. It's a live signal, it can't be analysed.

All that can happen is that VDJ can work out a tempo by calculating the spacing in milliseconds between the beats in the incoming audio. But that's not a CBG, that's just a live BPM reading.

It's also why VDJ has to be the ReWire master. It can't be a slave because it's not capable of syncing tracks to an external source.

Now if you want to check this by consulting one of the Atomix guys then fine, it'll confirm my suspicions - but I'd put money on it being the case.
 
So what your saying is that even if the BPMs match VDJ wont sync??
 
beatbreaker1 wrote :
So what your saying is that even if the BPMs match VDJ wont sync??


I kind of see what he is saying though. I have read this before that VDJ needs the CBG in order to work. But the question stands. If the BPM matches, it should not matter. There no reason for them to come out of sync if they are started on beat and moving at the same speed.
 
Sheppa wrote :
Hello,
What is your version of Reason ?
Since Reason 5, this problem is knowned, 'on some computer only' like Propellerheads says...
Same with Reason 6. Now I have the 6.5 release, I have to try again.
I wanted to sync Reason (rewire to Live) with Reaper (on an other computer).
I'll come back when tested.
David


I am using reason 4 in this application. I do have reason 5 laying around, but never used it because I heard there were compatibility issues between version files. However if upgrading my version of reason would help, I am willing to try.
 
badboynyc6321 wrote :
There no reason for them to come out of sync if they are started on beat and moving at the same speed.


I have to now ask - how long have you been DJing?

Have you only ever DJed with software?

In the days before computer DJ software, DJs used either vinyl records or compact discs. There was no sync button.

Using two records, if you started both turntables at the same time, there was no guarantee that both songs would stay 100% in time all the way through. When or if they drift, you adjust them. That's what DJs do. Same with two CD players. If they drift, you nudge.

The only reason two tracks stay in time with DJ software (when using sync) is that the computer is helping you.

When the computer doesn't (or can't) help, they drift. It's natural.
 
groovindj wrote :
badboynyc6321 wrote :
There no reason for them to come out of sync if they are started on beat and moving at the same speed.


I have to now ask - how long have you been DJing?

Have you only ever DJed with software?

In the days before computer DJ software, DJs used either vinyl records or compact discs. There was no sync button.

Using two records, if you started both turntables at the same time, there was no guarantee that both songs would stay 100% in time all the way through. When or if they drift, you adjust them. That's what DJs do. Same with two CD players. If they drift, you nudge.

The only reason two tracks stay in time with DJ software (when using sync) is that the computer is helping you.

When the computer doesn't (or can't) help, they drift. It's natural.


I feel as though you are now just trying to make a mockery of me. -_- Yes, I have DJ'ed without software, before I moved to virtual DJ I used to use CD's.
I am well aware of drift factors when using actual media rather the digital media. Of course, If you are using a record or a CD there are mechanical factors that could cause them to slow down, after all, no two decks are the same. HOWEVER, in a computer, In a virtual setting, this should not happen. A computer is a device driven by numbers. If the BPM is the same, that means the tracks are running at the same speed and therefore should stay in sync. There are no mechanical factors to inter fear with the speed the track is running at. No cracks in the record of scratches on the disk. Unless your track is digitally damaged, it should all be fine.

Unless you are trying to say that virtual DJ will purposely slow down, DRIFT or throw a track out of sync to create a realism effect, this should not happen.
 
Bro that's what he does, he likes to try and make you look stupid. Yes he is very knowledgeable but he likes to feel superior..... like I said the only way around it that I have found it to map pitch bends. Also I'm using Reason 5 and my tracks don't seem to fall out of sync as fast as you described. I think when version 8 comes out things will be better, I have faith cause they've done nothing but get better.

Sorry I couldn't be more help
Huey
 
badboynyc6321 wrote :
I feel as though you are now just trying to make a mockery of me

No - just trying to get some background based on what you've said.

badboynyc6321 wrote :

If the BPM is the same, that means the tracks are running at the same speed and therefore should stay in sync

Not necessarily. Computers are not perfect. BPM calculation is not perfect.

What's more, in this particular situation there is no sync. The line input from Reason does not have a CBG and therefore the other decks in VDJ can't sync to it - regardless of the BPM count being the same.

No DJ should rely on the computer getting it right the whole time. The DJ should be in charge, not the computer.




beatbreaker1 wrote :
he likes to try and make you look stupid. Yes he is very knowledgeable but he likes to feel superior


No, that's not me at all. If you knew me personally and/or spoke to me in person then it'd be more obvious.

Here, we're dealing with text only. I can only give advice based on what someone's written. If it sounds like they are ignorant of X Y or Z fact then I'll ask and/or provide that information.

Sometime it'll be "sucking eggs" time, but with text on forums that's the way it goes.

FYI I've been online and communicating with people this way for at least 20 years, before the WWW even existed. :-)
 
So, No other thoughts on this anyone?
 
What other thoughts do you need?

Would you like someone official at Atomix to back up what I've said?
 
I know im fully late in the game but, I'm having the very same issues except mine seems more complex. I'm using VDJ PRO 7.0.5 and
Ableton Live 8.2.7.

My hardware: Lenovo 3000 n500 4gb of ram 500gb disk - Windows 7 ultimate 64bit

1 Roland TR727, 1 Roland MC09, 1 Yamaha RM1X - Sequencers, Beat Machines, Rhythm Composers, Drum Machines etc. Lol ! for those who are'nt familiar with these.

1 Maya 44 USB LATEST ASIO DRIVERS 2.9 SOMETHING CAN'T REMEMBER THIS SECOND.

All 3 machines are MIDI capable they are wired through MIDI and then I have 1 of them returning back only AUDIO to the Maya44 and into my PC.
What I do is run those into the deck 4 of VDJ LINE IN and I run Ableton Live into the deck 3 of VDJ LINE IN. I do exactly the same procedure to sync everything and its not too bad, although I basically have the same annoying problem.
I've tried everything and nothing gets it right recently I tried downloading Jack Audio ( "which is free by the way") and hooked that up and rerouted everything through there but, the same if not a little worse.
Seems to work better for me directly through REWIRE vs. JACK AUDIO but maybe it can help someone else. For me though it's not that bad I have to just keep nudging it a bit here and there but what is frustrating is that I will load tracks onto deck 1 and 2 and thats when it's a problem.
Cause I forget about setting the deck I want to nudgeand I'll accidentally knock the synced deck off so on and so forth pisses me off I hate that man!!
Anyway if someone can help it would be appreciated if not hope my input serves for something.
 
Why not just take VDJ out of the setup completely and run those tracks in Ableton Live instead?

Then you're only running one prog not two, you're not relying on the accuracy of the VDJ beat grid, or of ReWire, you can warp the tracks to line up perfectly......
 
this isnt going to work yet! The idea of using ableton alone is like only using 2 wheel drive in a all wheel drive. It has more stuff you can do. I need to have virtual dj as its time coded to my turn tables then ableton to add beats and effect the entire out put of the sound card as a master. think of it like this endless amounts of effects and mods and cut and go to drop instant loops into the system as we are on the fly.. I dont buy mash ups I make them live and tap it while its still hot.. Now I gave up on this almost a year ago as I was about to ditch this and get a sl4 with traktor but I have faith in this program it has been with me since the first week it came out in the box and was 20$.. yes it was the start of the revolution in mixing. Now , some of you get this and some dont. whats the issue here. make a midi clock that can be linked to any midi controler and allows us to adjust in milli seconds. It can be simple or hard as heck. The key is make a video on youtube so we never have to have three pages to read where everyone is frustrated. when it works I will be first in line to congratulate the king of midi who got it to work.. now I will check back time to time or untill 8 is out ... p,s you all need to check out the new multi killer skin that was designed via people on here. Incredible.. i posted it in the forum section of skins.. read the reviews..
 
tycoonentertainmentcanada wrote :
The idea of using ableton alone is like only using 2 wheel drive in a all wheel drive

No it's not, because Ableton Live will allow him (or you) to run full length tracks and keep them in perfect sync with any loops, effects, synths etc. that you might want to use on top.

It'll do that all day long without any issues. It's what many people who do that type of thing use, because it works.

There's even a solution for DVS users. It's called The Bridge, and allows Ableton Live to be used with Serato Scratch Live.

Another option if you like timecode is Ms Pinky.

Yet another way is to use the Remix Decks in Traktor (or in your case Traktor Scratch). They're very similar to clips in Live.

VDJ hasn't yet reached the stage where it can perform all these tricks. Maybe in version 8 we'll get something.....
 


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