Djeemm
Hey!
Although I have been around Djing for around 5-6 years now, I never set a permanent system...For my mobile dj stuff, I had two Behringer active speakers and with my sets that was actually all. (or I would DJ at clubs where I wouldn't really be involved with the speakers they have)
Now, I have been playing at this place (like a ballroom) and I was told to improve their current system with the given budget. Its quite a low profile place and at the moment they have;
Spirit Folio by Soundcraft - SX Mixer
Studiomaster 2000E Amp
2 X Peavey XT Series - HISYS 4 XT Speakers
(They also Numark CD players - but hardly use them as I am using CUE with Total Control)
They have given me only 300-400 dollars to get whatever I need/want. It is not much money. I first thought that maybe I should get a Monitor Speaker for myself as because of the venue low ceiling and gigantic columns, I need to do everything on headphones at the moment. Second-hand audio I am getting is very echoed. I thought that with the given budget - http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-B212A-LIST - What do you think?
Also, rethinking about it maybe a Bass Bin would be a better purchase for the money and would add a lot to the ambiance. I really don't know what to get for that and if it would work with their current Studiomaster Amplifier. Also do you think that it is a more important thing than a Monitor speaker. I am playing Electro/Club most of the time.
As I said I don't have much experience/knowledge about these so any advice is highly appreciated.
Although I have been around Djing for around 5-6 years now, I never set a permanent system...For my mobile dj stuff, I had two Behringer active speakers and with my sets that was actually all. (or I would DJ at clubs where I wouldn't really be involved with the speakers they have)
Now, I have been playing at this place (like a ballroom) and I was told to improve their current system with the given budget. Its quite a low profile place and at the moment they have;
Spirit Folio by Soundcraft - SX Mixer
Studiomaster 2000E Amp
2 X Peavey XT Series - HISYS 4 XT Speakers
(They also Numark CD players - but hardly use them as I am using CUE with Total Control)
They have given me only 300-400 dollars to get whatever I need/want. It is not much money. I first thought that maybe I should get a Monitor Speaker for myself as because of the venue low ceiling and gigantic columns, I need to do everything on headphones at the moment. Second-hand audio I am getting is very echoed. I thought that with the given budget - http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-B212A-LIST - What do you think?
Also, rethinking about it maybe a Bass Bin would be a better purchase for the money and would add a lot to the ambiance. I really don't know what to get for that and if it would work with their current Studiomaster Amplifier. Also do you think that it is a more important thing than a Monitor speaker. I am playing Electro/Club most of the time.
As I said I don't have much experience/knowledge about these so any advice is highly appreciated.
发表时间 Sun 01 Nov 09 @ 3:37 pm
Tear Em 'Up
I would recommend a Behringer EQ, and some sort of sonic maximizer/aural exciter. You would be surprised how much adding sound re-enforcement gear will do to a set up.
发表时间 Sun 01 Nov 09 @ 3:39 pm
GadgetMan
In all honesty, it's not really our problem. If the venue is the size you say it is with really poor accoustics then you need professional help (not personally - the venue).
For your budget you are not going to get much that's going to make any real difference - and although the idea of a monitor speaker sounds good to you, the club won't see the benefit and wonder where their investment has gone.
Another thing to consider is that you may not be ale to do anything with the sound system. You may need to introduce accoustic dampers/absorbers to fix the venue.
Here in the UK, the Royal Albert Hall is a huge venue but has a really great accoustics due to the accoustic diffusing discs in the ceiling.
Good luck,
Roy
For your budget you are not going to get much that's going to make any real difference - and although the idea of a monitor speaker sounds good to you, the club won't see the benefit and wonder where their investment has gone.
Another thing to consider is that you may not be ale to do anything with the sound system. You may need to introduce accoustic dampers/absorbers to fix the venue.
Here in the UK, the Royal Albert Hall is a huge venue but has a really great accoustics due to the accoustic diffusing discs in the ceiling.
Good luck,
Roy
发表时间 Sun 01 Nov 09 @ 3:54 pm
Djeemm
Thank you very much for your help....
I am not sure about getting an equalizer and to be honest I never used one so maybe thats why. (well i know how they work but I just never used one..) How is that actually going to help and can't it be done in some form with the mixer already?
Well, they don't use the venue as a party place everyday. It is more of a multi-purpose room, that they rent out and use for a club night every other week so I don't think that any accoustic improvement would work as it would just a be a lot of hassle with taking them off and taking them up etc....You are completely right though, they would actually make a difference.
Still though all there's low ceiling and columns, the overall accoustics is not that bad as they already have some sort of absorbers and stuff...its just that from where the DJ cabin is second-hand audio sounds quite funky.
What do you think of a Bass Bin considering the current speakers?
I am not sure about getting an equalizer and to be honest I never used one so maybe thats why. (well i know how they work but I just never used one..) How is that actually going to help and can't it be done in some form with the mixer already?
Well, they don't use the venue as a party place everyday. It is more of a multi-purpose room, that they rent out and use for a club night every other week so I don't think that any accoustic improvement would work as it would just a be a lot of hassle with taking them off and taking them up etc....You are completely right though, they would actually make a difference.
Still though all there's low ceiling and columns, the overall accoustics is not that bad as they already have some sort of absorbers and stuff...its just that from where the DJ cabin is second-hand audio sounds quite funky.
What do you think of a Bass Bin considering the current speakers?
发表时间 Sun 01 Nov 09 @ 5:07 pm
Dazmax
Hi mate
Assuming the equipment they have already is in good working order (if not your answer may be a service). I'm with Gadgetman on this. You have identified a common problem in venues (which again I am assuming has lots of hard surfaces).
Try not to laugh too much at this but asking them to get hold of some heavy duty drapes (fire retardent of course) and have them hung at the rear of the venue opposite the speakers could make a lot of difference to what you have to put up with. The columns would benifit from the same treatment. You will be amazed at how effective this can be for not too much cash.
As long as the Peavey speakers are working well you could look at adding a bass bin but i guess it would need to be a good second hand item preferably one that matches the XT series. The XT and HISYS were very popular speakers with bands and there are usualy some to be had on ebay. A second hand amp would be in order to, to drive it with. Again the Studiomaster D and E series were popular and can be found cheaply mainly because although they are only 2U amps theyre V heavy.
Daz
Assuming the equipment they have already is in good working order (if not your answer may be a service). I'm with Gadgetman on this. You have identified a common problem in venues (which again I am assuming has lots of hard surfaces).
Try not to laugh too much at this but asking them to get hold of some heavy duty drapes (fire retardent of course) and have them hung at the rear of the venue opposite the speakers could make a lot of difference to what you have to put up with. The columns would benifit from the same treatment. You will be amazed at how effective this can be for not too much cash.
As long as the Peavey speakers are working well you could look at adding a bass bin but i guess it would need to be a good second hand item preferably one that matches the XT series. The XT and HISYS were very popular speakers with bands and there are usualy some to be had on ebay. A second hand amp would be in order to, to drive it with. Again the Studiomaster D and E series were popular and can be found cheaply mainly because although they are only 2U amps theyre V heavy.
Daz
发表时间 Sun 01 Nov 09 @ 5:22 pm
Djeemm
thank you very much for your help....i think heavy duty drapes can be sorted quite easily so that is actually a great idea...
so should i go for a Peavey bass bin? and which would be line that matches the HISYS 4 XT speakers?
also would i need an additional amp for the bass bin only..(sorry it sounds like a very rookie question but i never did a setup like this and don't think that it is my direct duty as a dj - BUT i am really enjoying the learning bit)
i thought that i could just parallel it with the speakers as long as the current amp supports the enough watts? (am i wrong there?)
so should i go for a Peavey bass bin? and which would be line that matches the HISYS 4 XT speakers?
also would i need an additional amp for the bass bin only..(sorry it sounds like a very rookie question but i never did a setup like this and don't think that it is my direct duty as a dj - BUT i am really enjoying the learning bit)
i thought that i could just parallel it with the speakers as long as the current amp supports the enough watts? (am i wrong there?)
发表时间 Sun 01 Nov 09 @ 5:59 pm
Dazmax
Hi mate
If you can, try and find a second hand HISYS series bin, A twin 15 would wor well. With the amp side you will need to have a look at the rear panel on the speakers. You are not so concerned with the Watt rating but a figure called impeadence. This is shown in Ohms and for the Peavey speakers will be 4 or 8. The 2000E series will drive 2 8 Ohm speakers from each channel with no problems. so you could use the HISYS with a base bin as long as both are the same 8Ohm rating.
Give me a little time to check the HISYS range and see what I can come up with. There are some other things that come into play but will explain them shortly.
Just off to work
Daz
If you can, try and find a second hand HISYS series bin, A twin 15 would wor well. With the amp side you will need to have a look at the rear panel on the speakers. You are not so concerned with the Watt rating but a figure called impeadence. This is shown in Ohms and for the Peavey speakers will be 4 or 8. The 2000E series will drive 2 8 Ohm speakers from each channel with no problems. so you could use the HISYS with a base bin as long as both are the same 8Ohm rating.
Give me a little time to check the HISYS range and see what I can come up with. There are some other things that come into play but will explain them shortly.
Just off to work
Daz
发表时间 Sun 01 Nov 09 @ 10:20 pm
Dazmax
Ok here goes.
You will have to check the Impeadence on the back plate of the 4XT's as some are 4Ohm and some are 8Ohm.
The matching range of bass bins for these were 112XT,115XT,118XT and 215XT.
BTW The HiSys speaker range that all these units come from is no longer manufactured so it would take a scout arround for second hand items to find some matching kit.
The 2000E can produce 1000W per chan into a 2Ohm minimum load.
The way the maths is done here it that if you daisychain two 8Ohm speakers together ( called connecting in paralell ) the impedance figure will be 1/2 ie 4 Ohms.
Your amp can run down to 2Ohms so in theory you could run wit 1X 4Ohm 4XT and say 1x 4Ohm 118XT on each side of the amp with no problem.
I said earlier that some other things come into play. When running bass bins they need to be sent the correct frequency of sound from the amp iether by having an internal device (called a passive crossover) or a device connected to your amp (active crossover). This device ensures that the different speakers only recieve the audio signal they were designed for. Ie bass frequencies to bass speakers/ trebble frequencies to the Treble units.
On checking none of the Peavy HiSys range of Bass bins have built in crossovers.
This changes things as now a second power amp and an electronic Active crossover would be required.
Obviously a discussin with your club would be required to do this.
The only other alternative is to find a sutable BASS bin which has a built in amp. I do not know of any new 2-300 Dollar powered bins that would do the 4XT's justice because they are fairly punchy beasts to begin wit ,but will see what could be arround at that price.
As you can tell adding things to the system you have and having them work/match well together is not as easy as it first appears.
Have a chat with your club owner and see what they are prepaired to do. Then post your thoughts.
Daz
You will have to check the Impeadence on the back plate of the 4XT's as some are 4Ohm and some are 8Ohm.
The matching range of bass bins for these were 112XT,115XT,118XT and 215XT.
BTW The HiSys speaker range that all these units come from is no longer manufactured so it would take a scout arround for second hand items to find some matching kit.
The 2000E can produce 1000W per chan into a 2Ohm minimum load.
The way the maths is done here it that if you daisychain two 8Ohm speakers together ( called connecting in paralell ) the impedance figure will be 1/2 ie 4 Ohms.
Your amp can run down to 2Ohms so in theory you could run wit 1X 4Ohm 4XT and say 1x 4Ohm 118XT on each side of the amp with no problem.
I said earlier that some other things come into play. When running bass bins they need to be sent the correct frequency of sound from the amp iether by having an internal device (called a passive crossover) or a device connected to your amp (active crossover). This device ensures that the different speakers only recieve the audio signal they were designed for. Ie bass frequencies to bass speakers/ trebble frequencies to the Treble units.
On checking none of the Peavy HiSys range of Bass bins have built in crossovers.
This changes things as now a second power amp and an electronic Active crossover would be required.
Obviously a discussin with your club would be required to do this.
The only other alternative is to find a sutable BASS bin which has a built in amp. I do not know of any new 2-300 Dollar powered bins that would do the 4XT's justice because they are fairly punchy beasts to begin wit ,but will see what could be arround at that price.
As you can tell adding things to the system you have and having them work/match well together is not as easy as it first appears.
Have a chat with your club owner and see what they are prepaired to do. Then post your thoughts.
Daz
发表时间 Mon 02 Nov 09 @ 6:47 am
GadgetMan
Djeemm wrote :
I am not sure about getting an equalizer and to be honest I never used one so maybe thats why. (well i know how they work but I just never used one..) How is that actually going to help and can't it be done in some form with the mixer already?
An equalizer gives much more finer adjustment on your treble, middle and bass. If your mixer has these three settings per channel they should be used to help compensate for tracks that are too tinny or too bassy - in other words individual track tone control - they are also good for simple FX too...
A graphic equaliser usually sits between your mixer and the amp and would be used to set up your "room" and would probably help your situation a lot. For example, I find in some venues where you get an echo back, becuase of the bad accoustics, taking the middle frequencies down/out can in most cases remove the echo without affecting the overall sound of your system.
9 times out of 10 my graphc setup doesn't change, but would have suffered big time without it on a few occasions.
I have a pair of monitor speakers that I use on my mobile rig, but aren't practicle for working in a club. Remember you usually have the option to bring the outgoing mix in to your headphones. If you keep that fairly low in the background you can mix over that rather than waiting for the echo...
Cheers,
Roy
发表时间 Mon 02 Nov 09 @ 10:37 am
Djeemm
Thank you very much for your help. It was really helpful.
Peavey 4XT's are at 4 ohms each. If I understood it correctly there is no way they would work together with the bass bins because of a freq. problem?
As far as I know they have a spare amp so I better get the details of that for the bass bins.
For an EQ, I suppose the next question is going to be. Which EQ? I just have no clue.
Thanks...
Peavey 4XT's are at 4 ohms each. If I understood it correctly there is no way they would work together with the bass bins because of a freq. problem?
As far as I know they have a spare amp so I better get the details of that for the bass bins.
For an EQ, I suppose the next question is going to be. Which EQ? I just have no clue.
Thanks...
发表时间 Tue 03 Nov 09 @ 6:57 pm
Tear Em 'Up
I own four of these. They have a separate output for the sub channel.
发表时间 Tue 03 Nov 09 @ 8:05 pm
Dazmax
Hi mate.
The little Behringer unit is great and, you will be pleased to hear are Vcheep to buy. As TearEmuP said they have an output and control to drive the correct signal to an amplifier and bass bin. Let us know how you get on with this.
Good luck.
Daz
The little Behringer unit is great and, you will be pleased to hear are Vcheep to buy. As TearEmuP said they have an output and control to drive the correct signal to an amplifier and bass bin. Let us know how you get on with this.
Good luck.
Daz
发表时间 Tue 03 Nov 09 @ 9:58 pm
Djeemm
Thank you very much for your help...I ordered the Behringer EQ, hopefully it will arrive in couple of days and I will let you know how it goes...
A very rookie question: What is the whole balanced / unbalanced connection thing and what is the best way to connect Studio Master amplifier to the Spirit Folio Mixer... Thanks...
A very rookie question: What is the whole balanced / unbalanced connection thing and what is the best way to connect Studio Master amplifier to the Spirit Folio Mixer... Thanks...
发表时间 Wed 18 Nov 09 @ 8:13 pm
Dazmax
Balanced connections use an axtra wire (3 instead of 2). The balanced system reduces noise pickup on cable runs.
The best connection method to use between your mixer and power amp is balanced. This will normaly be done with balanced 3 pin XLR cables.
Unbalanced cables work fine but have issues with runs over say 5 mtrs as they can pick up hum and noise (much worse with low level microphone cables) so if you have the facility, use balanced connections whenever possible.
Daz
The best connection method to use between your mixer and power amp is balanced. This will normaly be done with balanced 3 pin XLR cables.
Unbalanced cables work fine but have issues with runs over say 5 mtrs as they can pick up hum and noise (much worse with low level microphone cables) so if you have the facility, use balanced connections whenever possible.
Daz
发表时间 Thu 19 Nov 09 @ 3:12 am
Djeemm
thank you very much...so XLR is balanced but mono jack is unbalanced...the problem is though...the amp has a XLR input (which is good) but folio sx's main outputs are mono(or maybe stereo?) jacks....first is there an alternative way to connect it...secondly are those main outputs mono or stereo...here is the manual...it doesn't seem to state it...
http://www.xshire.com/wp-content/images/other/spirit_sx_user_guide.pdf
thanks..
http://www.xshire.com/wp-content/images/other/spirit_sx_user_guide.pdf
thanks..
发表时间 Thu 19 Nov 09 @ 4:40 am
GadgetMan
From the looks of the diagram:
1. You will need 2 1/4" jack to XLR signal leads. These will be a single channel each
2. Plug the jack ends in to the Folio SX - The MAIN OUTPUTS MIX - and the XLR ends in to the input side of the EQ
3. Your amp should also have balanced XLR inputs so you will need 2 XLR to XLR signal leads to connect the EQ to the amp
4. Speakers connect as normal
That should be it. It's a pretty typical setup. If you are going to by the signal leads from a local supplier, just tell him what you are connecting up and he should be able to supplly the right leads for you.
Cheers,
Roy
1. You will need 2 1/4" jack to XLR signal leads. These will be a single channel each
2. Plug the jack ends in to the Folio SX - The MAIN OUTPUTS MIX - and the XLR ends in to the input side of the EQ
3. Your amp should also have balanced XLR inputs so you will need 2 XLR to XLR signal leads to connect the EQ to the amp
4. Speakers connect as normal
That should be it. It's a pretty typical setup. If you are going to by the signal leads from a local supplier, just tell him what you are connecting up and he should be able to supplly the right leads for you.
Cheers,
Roy
发表时间 Thu 19 Nov 09 @ 5:45 am
Djeemm
but so if i am not misunderstanding....EQ to Mixer connection is going to be unbalanced because of MONO output leads on the mixer?
发表时间 Thu 19 Nov 09 @ 5:48 am
GadgetMan
Djeemm wrote :
but so if i am not misunderstanding....EQ to Mixer connection is going to be unbalanced because of MONO output leads on the mixer?
From the diagram the MAIN OUTPUTS - MIX has a jack output for L and R - That's two channels = stereo...
Which outputs are you using at the moment?
Roy
发表时间 Thu 19 Nov 09 @ 5:50 am
Dazmax
Hi guys
The MAIN outputs are Balanced Mono. L and R.
Without wanting to throw everyone into confusion.
The Spirit desk has balanced outputs but they are on TRS (Tip Ring Sleave) 1/4" jacks. The jack plug is identical to a 1/4" stereo hadphone jack.
I believe the Behringer provides connections for 3 pin XLR and also TRS jack so the simple way would be to get hold of two balanced TRS Jack to TRS Jack leads to connect the mixer to the EQ and two 3 pin XLR male to female leads to connect the EQ to the Amp.
This will give you a balanced system from the mixer to the EQ and on to the amp.
Daz
The MAIN outputs are Balanced Mono. L and R.
Without wanting to throw everyone into confusion.
The Spirit desk has balanced outputs but they are on TRS (Tip Ring Sleave) 1/4" jacks. The jack plug is identical to a 1/4" stereo hadphone jack.
I believe the Behringer provides connections for 3 pin XLR and also TRS jack so the simple way would be to get hold of two balanced TRS Jack to TRS Jack leads to connect the mixer to the EQ and two 3 pin XLR male to female leads to connect the EQ to the Amp.
This will give you a balanced system from the mixer to the EQ and on to the amp.
Daz
发表时间 Thu 19 Nov 09 @ 6:30 am
Djeemm
At the moment, without the EQ, I need connection cables between Spirit Mixer and Amp. So i think that means 2 of "Balanced XLR to 1/4" TRS Jack" cables...my local dj/audio shop doesn't sell them so I need to order from amazon.co.uk or some UK website ... "balanced" thing is so confusing though... thanks....
发表时间 Mon 23 Nov 09 @ 8:09 am
