redfordxx
There were many discussions about how should automix look like and probably will be, so I add briefly what I have in mind:
1) make available to see the name of the second song queued to automix. When I am doing changes to playlist during automix playback, sometimes I cannot predict what automix chooses as a next song
2) I often wanna change or at least check mix points of the songs queued in automix. I can do it in the other deck, thats nice but to get the song there is a little tricky. I cannot drag it there, coz it is deleted from the queue. So I have to find it in the browser. Can you make it not deleted...maybe dragging with shift or so, for compatibility reasons.
3)Allow enable/disable independently all 6 mixpoint which are in the BPM left click settings. There can by often songs which should enter mix cut and exit mix fade.
4) create some lock feature or flag to songs. The DJ can set it and then he will know that that song is perfectly checked and prepared for automix...i.e. BPM is correctly calculated, mix points set... If that would be just flag it will let him know, if that would be lock, it will disable accidental changes to these parameter bu the user and also automatic analysing the song will be disabled. He has to unlock it first
5) add an optional column to show how mixpoints are set. The values would look like:
C_FT/L ... means entry cut allowed only, exit fade or tempo, settings are locked
F_F ... means entry and exit only fade allowed
6) add option to sync to every fourth beat (the big ones on visualization) when crossfading would be really helpful in many genres (other than techno)
and now the key feature:
as I estimate now the smart mix works something like (it's my guess don't kill me if I am wrong):
1- look if the songs have tempo mix enabled, then do it
2- if not, look if the songs have cut mix enabled, then do it
3- if not, mix fade : it is always there
what I propose:
If you accept my recommendation 3 we can have up to 3 types of mix points at the beginning and end of each track or none is also available
So we can have theoretically 16 ways of joining
1. tempo exit ---> tempo entry
2. fade exit --->tempo entry
3. cut exit --->tempo entry
4. none exit --->tempo entry
5. fade exit ---> tempo entry
6. fade exit ---> fade entry
...
16. none exit --->none entry
In fact we can have theoretically 17 ways if we add a parameter (let's say 10%) to tempo mix as a max difference of BPM
1a. (tempo exit ---> tempo entry) & abs(1-exitBPM/entryBPM)<=param
1b. (tempo exit ---> tempo entry) & abs(1-exitBPM/entryBPM)>param
2. fade exit --->tempo entry
3. cut exit --->tempo entry
4. none exit --->tempo entry
5. fade exit ---> tempo entry
6. fade exit ---> fade entry
...
16. none exit --->none entry
But there are not so many of them in reality, because:
"fade ---> cut" will be mapped on same processing sheme as "tempo-->cut"
"(tempo exit ---> tempo entry) & abs(1-exitBPM/entryBPM)>param" will be same as "fade--->fade" etc.
Now you can have automix settings page where will be listbox with all these combinations and for all of them will be defined how to crossfade. There will be move up and move down button so the user can make his preference. An he will maybe end up with:
1) tempo ---> tempo & BPM+-15%
2) fade ---> cut
3) cut ---> cut
4) cut ---> fade
5) fade ---> fade
...
17) none --> none
For the "none" case (no mix point set) behavior: there can be for instance check box for remove silence. Moreover, customized value for dB could be specified.
To finalize, by default, there can be 5 ways to process the transition:
fade (exists)
tempo (exists)
cut (exists)
fade2cut (new)
cut2fade (new)
Each of these 17 combinations above should be mapped on some of defined transitions.
So then the preference listbox shoul look something like:
1) tempo-->tempo & BPM-+15% .... Tempo Transition
2) fade-->cut .... Fade2Cut Transition
...
16) none (rem silence)-->fade ..... Cut2Fade Transition
17) none (rem silence -40dB)-->none(rem silence -40dB) ..... Cut Transition
I don't know, it seems quite dificult to explain but it is only a little generalized what is already implemented. So, I hope you see what I mean.
other) add rating pls
Please give feedback
1) make available to see the name of the second song queued to automix. When I am doing changes to playlist during automix playback, sometimes I cannot predict what automix chooses as a next song
2) I often wanna change or at least check mix points of the songs queued in automix. I can do it in the other deck, thats nice but to get the song there is a little tricky. I cannot drag it there, coz it is deleted from the queue. So I have to find it in the browser. Can you make it not deleted...maybe dragging with shift or so, for compatibility reasons.
3)Allow enable/disable independently all 6 mixpoint which are in the BPM left click settings. There can by often songs which should enter mix cut and exit mix fade.
4) create some lock feature or flag to songs. The DJ can set it and then he will know that that song is perfectly checked and prepared for automix...i.e. BPM is correctly calculated, mix points set... If that would be just flag it will let him know, if that would be lock, it will disable accidental changes to these parameter bu the user and also automatic analysing the song will be disabled. He has to unlock it first
5) add an optional column to show how mixpoints are set. The values would look like:
C_FT/L ... means entry cut allowed only, exit fade or tempo, settings are locked
F_F ... means entry and exit only fade allowed
6) add option to sync to every fourth beat (the big ones on visualization) when crossfading would be really helpful in many genres (other than techno)
and now the key feature:
as I estimate now the smart mix works something like (it's my guess don't kill me if I am wrong):
1- look if the songs have tempo mix enabled, then do it
2- if not, look if the songs have cut mix enabled, then do it
3- if not, mix fade : it is always there
what I propose:
If you accept my recommendation 3 we can have up to 3 types of mix points at the beginning and end of each track or none is also available
So we can have theoretically 16 ways of joining
1. tempo exit ---> tempo entry
2. fade exit --->tempo entry
3. cut exit --->tempo entry
4. none exit --->tempo entry
5. fade exit ---> tempo entry
6. fade exit ---> fade entry
...
16. none exit --->none entry
In fact we can have theoretically 17 ways if we add a parameter (let's say 10%) to tempo mix as a max difference of BPM
1a. (tempo exit ---> tempo entry) & abs(1-exitBPM/entryBPM)<=param
1b. (tempo exit ---> tempo entry) & abs(1-exitBPM/entryBPM)>param
2. fade exit --->tempo entry
3. cut exit --->tempo entry
4. none exit --->tempo entry
5. fade exit ---> tempo entry
6. fade exit ---> fade entry
...
16. none exit --->none entry
But there are not so many of them in reality, because:
"fade ---> cut" will be mapped on same processing sheme as "tempo-->cut"
"(tempo exit ---> tempo entry) & abs(1-exitBPM/entryBPM)>param" will be same as "fade--->fade" etc.
Now you can have automix settings page where will be listbox with all these combinations and for all of them will be defined how to crossfade. There will be move up and move down button so the user can make his preference. An he will maybe end up with:
1) tempo ---> tempo & BPM+-15%
2) fade ---> cut
3) cut ---> cut
4) cut ---> fade
5) fade ---> fade
...
17) none --> none
For the "none" case (no mix point set) behavior: there can be for instance check box for remove silence. Moreover, customized value for dB could be specified.
To finalize, by default, there can be 5 ways to process the transition:
fade (exists)
tempo (exists)
cut (exists)
fade2cut (new)
cut2fade (new)
Each of these 17 combinations above should be mapped on some of defined transitions.
So then the preference listbox shoul look something like:
1) tempo-->tempo & BPM-+15% .... Tempo Transition
2) fade-->cut .... Fade2Cut Transition
...
16) none (rem silence)-->fade ..... Cut2Fade Transition
17) none (rem silence -40dB)-->none(rem silence -40dB) ..... Cut Transition
I don't know, it seems quite dificult to explain but it is only a little generalized what is already implemented. So, I hope you see what I mean.
other) add rating pls
Please give feedback
发表时间 Sat 07 Jun 08 @ 2:17 pm
dizzyrocks2001
Why do you need such extensive features for automix? I just use automix for when I have to go to the washroom. It seems with all the features you're suggesting you're looking to have VDJ do all the mixing for you. Explain please.
发表时间 Sat 07 Jun 08 @ 3:01 pm
redfordxx
I admit, I'd like to have more free time than only go to washroom.
In my eyes the automix feature is very nice and making it little more customizable can make great leap in its usefullness.
I my post there were 8 features (where the 7th one was the biggest) so I try to explain
1) it really happened that there was not the song behind the playing one in the queue and that was big surprise
2) saves annoying work
3) this makes pretty much sense to me (there is no reason to have same mixing condition on begining and end of the song)
4) nice to have
5) nice to have
6) in most dances, if you mix sychronized on beats but not on measures or mostly double measures (i.e. you have to sync every 1st of 8 beat) you make the dancers to break the step anyway
7) I was here maybe too technical but what I was saying was:
a) smart automix is blackbox. Open it for the user, so that he can change it litle according his needs and also that he knows what to expect
b) add cut2fade and fade2cut transitions. There was big discussion on the net about this way of automixing some time ago. There are many songs which have wonderful beginning or end and blending it together will destroy all and will produce anger of dancers.
c) for me, transition time of smart mixing is way too long, I would appreciate slider to set the length of transition
rating)nice to have
IMHO, the best thing about DJ can be that he knows which song will best meet the audience's demand in current moment. No SW can replace it. Mixing is more or less technical thing, which can be partially solved by SW if it gets really good. So why not to use automix to its full capabilities.
In my eyes the automix feature is very nice and making it little more customizable can make great leap in its usefullness.
I my post there were 8 features (where the 7th one was the biggest) so I try to explain
1) it really happened that there was not the song behind the playing one in the queue and that was big surprise
2) saves annoying work
3) this makes pretty much sense to me (there is no reason to have same mixing condition on begining and end of the song)
4) nice to have
5) nice to have
6) in most dances, if you mix sychronized on beats but not on measures or mostly double measures (i.e. you have to sync every 1st of 8 beat) you make the dancers to break the step anyway
7) I was here maybe too technical but what I was saying was:
a) smart automix is blackbox. Open it for the user, so that he can change it litle according his needs and also that he knows what to expect
b) add cut2fade and fade2cut transitions. There was big discussion on the net about this way of automixing some time ago. There are many songs which have wonderful beginning or end and blending it together will destroy all and will produce anger of dancers.
c) for me, transition time of smart mixing is way too long, I would appreciate slider to set the length of transition
rating)nice to have
IMHO, the best thing about DJ can be that he knows which song will best meet the audience's demand in current moment. No SW can replace it. Mixing is more or less technical thing, which can be partially solved by SW if it gets really good. So why not to use automix to its full capabilities.
发表时间 Sat 07 Jun 08 @ 6:28 pm
tayla
red
there's an awful lot of features you want to be made/added do you want to dj or do you want to sit at the bar...
Tayla
there's an awful lot of features you want to be made/added do you want to dj or do you want to sit at the bar...
Tayla
发表时间 Sat 07 Jun 08 @ 7:12 pm
Raxtacy
By the way this VDJ 5.1 version is the best version I ever downloaded from the site.
And now:
Redfoxx is right.
The automix has to be improved.
There must exist a preload for volume, beats etc.
I don't know if it was already mentioned
when you try to dobble click on a Song while the music is playing and automix is enabled
the volume will be calculated while playing and after a short while the volume changes WHILE PLAYING to
the new calculated volume and this is a bit nasty.
The solution:
You could create a optional right click preload function
or integrate a preload function for selected or all files.
So that volume, beats etc. are calculated before the song is in the player,
and for not overloading the computer I recommand to do the preload as an right click option or extra button on the playlist surface.
For all DJs:
To avoid this jump in the volume while playing just preload it by loading it into the other turntable then the volume will be calculated and the information will be saved(once you calculated it everything is fine).
Thank you
I recommand vdj to other people because it is good
And now:
Redfoxx is right.
The automix has to be improved.
There must exist a preload for volume, beats etc.
I don't know if it was already mentioned
when you try to dobble click on a Song while the music is playing and automix is enabled
the volume will be calculated while playing and after a short while the volume changes WHILE PLAYING to
the new calculated volume and this is a bit nasty.
The solution:
You could create a optional right click preload function
or integrate a preload function for selected or all files.
So that volume, beats etc. are calculated before the song is in the player,
and for not overloading the computer I recommand to do the preload as an right click option or extra button on the playlist surface.
For all DJs:
To avoid this jump in the volume while playing just preload it by loading it into the other turntable then the volume will be calculated and the information will be saved(once you calculated it everything is fine).
Thank you
I recommand vdj to other people because it is good
发表时间 Sat 07 Jun 08 @ 7:51 pm
redfordxx
Tayla:
what I want?
Deliver the music the dancer want. Thats all. Nothing more, no scrathes or other things invented to destroy the music made by the original artists;-) For this I don't need to stand all the night in the place. I can talk to friends, go to bar, dance a little;-)
Rax:
I dont see what you mean...double clicking crossfades to new song...
what I want?
Deliver the music the dancer want. Thats all. Nothing more, no scrathes or other things invented to destroy the music made by the original artists;-) For this I don't need to stand all the night in the place. I can talk to friends, go to bar, dance a little;-)
Rax:
I dont see what you mean...double clicking crossfades to new song...
发表时间 Sat 07 Jun 08 @ 8:45 pm
tayla
hire a jukebox... lol
发表时间 Sun 08 Jun 08 @ 1:19 pm
dizzyrocks2001
You need to spend more time in the DJ booth and less time using VDJ as a juke box. Why not just record your set ahead of time, show up to the venue, put up a cardboard cut-out of yourself in the DJ booth, hit play, go home, do laundry, watch TV, think of more ways to change a program meant for DJ'ing into a juke box, and then show up at the end of the night to collect your money. Seriously man, do you know how little respect "point and click" DJ's get?! And for good reason. I used to spin at this lounge and on Tuesday nights this guy would pretty much pre-program his whole night then sit around, get drunk and talk to girls. Sounds like a good gig right. Except the owner wised up and fired him because why pay a guy to bring in his laptop to play a preset playlist when they could just put on music from one of the DMX satellite channels. Not to mention people felt like there wasn't even a DJ there because there was never anyone in the booth. Believe it or not part of the appeal of having a DJ is actually seeing him/her in action and doing SOMETHING. Being an "Automix" DJ is straight up wack. You need to re-think your career as a DJ if you want to let VDJ automix for you all night. Seriously, people already think DVS systems do all the mixing for us, and you're proving them right.
发表时间 Mon 09 Jun 08 @ 12:42 am
redfordxx
dizzy: I understand and basically agree with what you are saying. However, nothing is always black and white.
I don't know what, where, how etc you are DJing and don't know whether for you is best to use automix in 0% or 20% or 40% cases. And I am not telling you should use it more or less. Neither you do not my situation. But this is not the point.
The point is, that I am suggesting an improvement of some feature. There could be an answer of someone from dev team saying: no, yes or we think about it or some ongoing constructive discussion to finetune the suggestion.
But there are some lol's from experienced users instead, saying basically: "Don't use automix. You are no DJ if you use automix."
It seems to me like a Boeing company makes autopilot in their planes, so the pilot can rest in certain easier parts of the flight. However, when the pilot complains that the autopilot does not work properly, Boeing spokesman says: "Forget about the autopilot, you are the pilot, you should fly"
If you don't want to use automix, don't use it. But certainly there are and will be people who will use it. Please stop discussing about each one's motives when and how to use automix and focus on the suggestion.
Last year, when I was first time thinking about VDJ, I spent some hours reading on internet. I noticed big complains about blending all songs into one via fade or tempo mix. I agree with that 100%. That is why I suggested e.g. fade2cut automix... many will appreciate it I am sure.
I don't know what, where, how etc you are DJing and don't know whether for you is best to use automix in 0% or 20% or 40% cases. And I am not telling you should use it more or less. Neither you do not my situation. But this is not the point.
The point is, that I am suggesting an improvement of some feature. There could be an answer of someone from dev team saying: no, yes or we think about it or some ongoing constructive discussion to finetune the suggestion.
But there are some lol's from experienced users instead, saying basically: "Don't use automix. You are no DJ if you use automix."
It seems to me like a Boeing company makes autopilot in their planes, so the pilot can rest in certain easier parts of the flight. However, when the pilot complains that the autopilot does not work properly, Boeing spokesman says: "Forget about the autopilot, you are the pilot, you should fly"
If you don't want to use automix, don't use it. But certainly there are and will be people who will use it. Please stop discussing about each one's motives when and how to use automix and focus on the suggestion.
Last year, when I was first time thinking about VDJ, I spent some hours reading on internet. I noticed big complains about blending all songs into one via fade or tempo mix. I agree with that 100%. That is why I suggested e.g. fade2cut automix... many will appreciate it I am sure.
发表时间 Mon 09 Jun 08 @ 8:26 pm
cstoll
Atomix Productions already sells such a product with what you want -- kind of exclusive in the European market --- http://www.dj-box.com/
Here is a Google Translation for you --
"DJ-Box is a software created to disseminate your music. Whether you're a bar, restaurant or nightclub, DJ-Box is the solution for managing your music establishment in the absence of DJ.
From simple functions and fully automatic, DJ-Box has been designed primarily for use by bartenders or disc jockeys. No need to have the slightest knowledge in the use of a computer to use it.
Developed by Atomix Productions and SES Giraudon with the assistance of DJ Chris ( "The Suite" - Paris - France), DJ-Box can change your tracks as well as a disc jockey at a high level. DJ-Box analyzes the style of songs available to mix and adjust its mix fade from the mix tempo without any fault.
In this exceptional product and professional DJ-Box said professionals of a large manufacturer of workstations, IBM, to propose a machine dedicated to the exploitation of your musical establishment.
Finally, DJ-Box joined the contest for Best Line-Up of Djs to offer you a selection of music varied quality, with opportunities for updates via an offered subscription music at a price defying any competition !"
Here is a Google Translation for you --
"DJ-Box is a software created to disseminate your music. Whether you're a bar, restaurant or nightclub, DJ-Box is the solution for managing your music establishment in the absence of DJ.
From simple functions and fully automatic, DJ-Box has been designed primarily for use by bartenders or disc jockeys. No need to have the slightest knowledge in the use of a computer to use it.
Developed by Atomix Productions and SES Giraudon with the assistance of DJ Chris ( "The Suite" - Paris - France), DJ-Box can change your tracks as well as a disc jockey at a high level. DJ-Box analyzes the style of songs available to mix and adjust its mix fade from the mix tempo without any fault.
In this exceptional product and professional DJ-Box said professionals of a large manufacturer of workstations, IBM, to propose a machine dedicated to the exploitation of your musical establishment.
Finally, DJ-Box joined the contest for Best Line-Up of Djs to offer you a selection of music varied quality, with opportunities for updates via an offered subscription music at a price defying any competition !"
发表时间 Mon 09 Jun 08 @ 10:36 pm
villageinn
I am looking at the dj-box website my french isn´t too good but the website has not been updated since ive been here..
The price asnt neither has I can remember (not sure)
Voici une indication des tarifs du logiciel (à la date du 21 juillet 2003) :
Version tactile étanche IBM: 6800 euros HT
Version non-tactile Slim: 4800 euros HT
Abonnement musical: 150 euros HT / mois
Video demostracion of this? Is it worth the extra cash? does it automix videos?
In it´s day I would of maybe thought of buying this product but the big price tag and that nobody seems to say or know anything about it put me off.
VDJ had and has automix feature so I thought it work just as well.
Saludos
The price asnt neither has I can remember (not sure)
Voici une indication des tarifs du logiciel (à la date du 21 juillet 2003) :
Version tactile étanche IBM: 6800 euros HT
Version non-tactile Slim: 4800 euros HT
Abonnement musical: 150 euros HT / mois
Video demostracion of this? Is it worth the extra cash? does it automix videos?
In it´s day I would of maybe thought of buying this product but the big price tag and that nobody seems to say or know anything about it put me off.
VDJ had and has automix feature so I thought it work just as well.
Saludos
发表时间 Mon 30 Jun 08 @ 9:57 am
jimmy@Uplay.nl
automix is for having a visit to the toilet. otherwise use mediaplayer 11.
发表时间 Sun 30 Nov 08 @ 8:12 pm
SBDJ
Why bump an old thread to say that? ;)
发表时间 Sun 30 Nov 08 @ 10:33 pm
DJ TAO of TAOTRONX
I think the AUTOMIX in VDJ should be able to tell if a song actually ends "COLD" or actually "FADES".
Now that would be nice (IMHO) and make the AUTOMIX much more useable instead of always having to actually set your "CUE" markers, etc...
DJ TAO :)
Now that would be nice (IMHO) and make the AUTOMIX much more useable instead of always having to actually set your "CUE" markers, etc...
DJ TAO :)
发表时间 Sat 20 Dec 08 @ 9:16 pm
Sonido Alto Voltaje
DJ TAO of TAOTRONX wrote :
I think the AUTOMIX in VDJ should be able to tell if a song actually ends "COLD" or actually "FADES".
Now that would be nice (IMHO) and make the AUTOMIX much more useable instead of always having to actually set your "CUE" markers, etc...
DJ TAO :)
Now that would be nice (IMHO) and make the AUTOMIX much more useable instead of always having to actually set your "CUE" markers, etc...
DJ TAO :)
Volume DB detectors could be part of the solution. Anyone ever use Sam Braocaster? http://www.spacialaudio.com/?page=sam-broadcaster&tab=tab-sam-broadcaster-overview . It does an incredible job. I use it for radio work.
发表时间 Mon 22 Dec 08 @ 5:22 pm
DJ TAO of TAOTRONX
YES...
Please bring on that "Volume dB detector" to improve that VDJ Automix...
DJ TAO :)
Please bring on that "Volume dB detector" to improve that VDJ Automix...
DJ TAO :)
发表时间 Mon 22 Dec 08 @ 7:18 pm