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话题: D Vinyl experiences - Page: 1

由于该帖子的部分内容已年深日久,可能包含陈旧过时或描述错误的信息。

Finally I got my D-Vinyl controller. I will post my findings in this thread. I will split it up into some post to make the posts not to long
If you have any questions please ask.
Ewout
 

发表时间 Tue 13 Jul 04 @ 9:45 pm
D-Vinyl Hardware

The controller looks very professional. It has a aluminium front panel and a metal casing. the unit is 19" wide, 3HE heigh and about 8cm in depth. The depth is quite large compared to my Denon remote. But when inserted in a 19" rack this will not result in problems

Buttons:
Buttons are soft rubber buttons and are nicely placed in the same layout as most twin cd players like made by Denon, Numark or Pioneer. The buttons work very well. Much better than the buttons on the DJ console.
The buttons on the console will sometimes not respond to a push. You have to push right in the middle for a good response. The D-vinyl buttons not failed for one time until now

Display
The display has a green back lite. The font is quite small. It is good to read, but probably when i'm in my 40s I will need glasses ;-). The displays shows the time and a progress bar and some settings. Artist and title are not displays, thats a pitty.

Sound card
there is a build in sound card. With 2 stereo inputs (for the turntable or cd player control) and 2 stereo outputs. I didn't tested on my sound reinforcement system (5kW) yet, but the quality seem quite good (Compared with the DJ console)

Connections
On the back the connections are located a USB connection and 2 times a stereo input, stereo output and a stereo thru. The last one is the same signal as is on the stereo input. You could use this to play normal vinyls or cds
Ewout
 

发表时间 Tue 13 Jul 04 @ 9:59 pm
Software installation

A cd is included with the software and drivers. The CD will auto start. It include three steps.
- Installation of D-Vynyl 2020 software
- Install the Asio drivers
- Install direct x 8.1

The first is not needed when you will use VDJ. I installed the software just to get an impression and compare the vinyl control with vdj
The asio drivers are needed
The direct X installation was not needed while I already had version 9 installed

The software installation is easy. The drivers have to be installed before the unit is connected to your pc.
After installation and rebooting, the unit could be connected. The USB controller will be installed, Therfore the drivers are also located on the cd. Both player a and b will be installed seperately

There is also a manual included to optimise the performance of your machine. Not done any of the optimisations yet.
Ewout
 

发表时间 Tue 13 Jul 04 @ 10:05 pm
Ewout, I would really like to see this work. Are you from Belgium or the Netherlands?
 

发表时间 Tue 13 Jul 04 @ 10:13 pm
Using the controller in digital DJ mode

There are three modes available. The mode could be seleted with a switch on each player:

Digital DJ: You control your mp3s with the controller, or you keyboard and mouse. Turntables and or cd players are not needed.

Digital Vinyl mode. The speed of the songs played in VDJ are controlled by turntables or cd players (with the timecode vinyls or cd)

Analog vinyl mode. The player will not respond to anything. The thru output will be used to play the original vinyl sound. Original vinyls have to be used

In Digital DJ mode the controller is used just like the Hercules dj console. In my opinion it is better than the Hercules:
- Better buttons. They react always and fast
- No unnecessary sliders. I never use the cross fader on the console. While it moves so easily i sometimes "use" it by accident. There is no cross fader on the Soundgrapgh controller
- Displays. The displays are easy and helpfull. There is also a sort of walking light. 4 leds in a row. 1 lighting up on the first beat, the second on the second beat and so on. This is synced with the beat boxes under the waveform in the VDJ screen. This is also helpfull, instead of looking on the screen at the waveforms. Works much better than the flashing light on the console.
- Looks much less "mickey mouse" as the Hercules console

Latency of the buttons is not noticeble even the controller is attached with USB 1. I think that there are 2 USB devices for the button control and also 1 or 2 for the soundcards. This gives lots of stability.

In this mode I think it is a very good controller

Most ineteresting digital vinyl mode with cd players and turntables will be posted (hopefully) tomorrow
Ewout
 

发表时间 Tue 13 Jul 04 @ 10:21 pm
DJ Elof
I'm from the Netherlands. I live near Alkmaar. If you are interested I'm willing to demonstrate it to you.
Ewout
 

发表时间 Tue 13 Jul 04 @ 10:23 pm
apopsisdjPRO InfinitySenior staffMember since 2003
Hi Ewout, so finally you have it.
(3 weeks of waiting, if i'm right... or more ?)

Thanks for all your info.

I've downloaded the asio drivers from the dvinyl site
and installed them for testing (even if i don't have the controller.)
It is the same generic usb driver from propagamma,
(but a special version for d-vinyl) like other usb cards
like maya 44usb, some yamaha's, and Esi's.
What i see is the ''Esi'' logo in the driver control panel,
so probably dvinyl has "Esi inside" which is a good sign
because Esi makes some good pro audio cards.

What i want to know is :
1. How is the Dvinyl controller as a soundcard ?
Is it 4in/4out for asio, and 2in/2out for wdm/dx
like the maya 44usb for example ?
Is there a switch (hardware or software)
to bypass the phono preamps, something like phono/line ?
to record normal line level signal in music applications ?
Can you try it ?

2. Replacement timecoded vinyls, are they available ?
How easy to find them ? price ?

3. D-vinyl timecode does not support needle dropping.
So probably seamless loops, cues are not supported.
Can you try it and let me know for sure ?
When using cdplayers to control (with the timecoded cd)
are play/cue/stop controls working as expected or it is always
play/pause and no cue point (because of no needle dropping)
Master tempo ? Is it working in this mode ?

4. How easy is navigate through cue points ?
(i use them a lot)
I see there is no direct "cue1", cue2" etc buttons, but 4 joystick style buttons.

Thank you, good mixes with your new equipment.

George V.
 

发表时间 Wed 14 Jul 04 @ 3:01 pm
Superstorm, enjoy mixing with it and in a couple of weeks I come to Holland to see you perform with it!
 

发表时间 Wed 14 Jul 04 @ 3:06 pm
Digital vinyl mode:
The most exiting part of the controller:
Just attach your turntables to the controller. Place the digital vinyl record (With a timecode) on the platter. And start spinning.
The setup is easy. The soundgraph software is also needed, while the system settings have to be done with the setup option in the playlist editor. Here the latency could be set.
At first my latency was (automatically) set to 40ms. This worked not really ok, while the lag is noticable. Then I switched to 11ms (the lowest value), but this resulted in lots of cracks and tickles. After setting the latency to 20ms the lag is hardly not noticable and the sound is good

How does it work
you have to switch the controller to "digital vinyl" mode. Load a song to one of the desks. You are able to search through your file lists with the jog wheel. Then select the proper cue point (this could also been done with the controller). Place the needle on the record.
Press Play on the controller, now VDJ is "listening" to the input signal. after starting the turntable the song will start playing.
Cueing with the record works great. Dropping in the song for beat matching is also ok. Beat matching is easy and works just like playing an analog record
When you are slowing down the platter with your fingers, you will see the pitch slider in VDJ move to the - side, just like you are expecting. Also pitching with your turntable works ok. Keep in mind that the pitch slider in VDJ and the console are not working.
Beat matching is some harder than with VDJ (using the magic beat match), but easier than with original vinyls, while you have the waveforms.

So in general I think it is a very good product. Much respect to the VDJ team!
The only thing which needs some work, is the waveform display. Sometimes it is freezing and other times it seem like the beats do not match. But hearing to the sound it is ok, After a couple of seconds the waveform is then also in sync again
Ewout
 

发表时间 Wed 14 Jul 04 @ 8:35 pm
NICE GUIDE!!! THANX!
 

发表时间 Wed 14 Jul 04 @ 8:37 pm
During the setup. I had some problems. I use Stanton 500 AL cartridges in my sl1200s. The output signal of these are to weak for the Soundgrapgh controller. Currently I'm using 2 phono pre amplifiers. With those it works ok, but I do not like to bring those with me on gigs.

I did some investigation about other cartridges and the Stanton Trackmaster have twice the output signal than the 500's. So maybe i have to get a pair of these.
Proto, what cartridges do you use? Maybe others with a soundgraph controller could post their setup also.
Thanks in advance
Ewout
 

发表时间 Wed 14 Jul 04 @ 8:41 pm
To apopsis
(yes you are all aloud to read :-) )

Almost correct it took 2,5 week from ordering to delivery. This tome was mainly based on two things
- Bank transfer, a bank transfer from the Netherlands to Germany takes about 4 a 5 days
- Delivery, the delivery was with normal post service, this is cheap (only €8 for sending the box from Germany to the Netherlands), but takes also 5 days or so

The sound cards in the Soundgraph controlers are indeed from ESI (http://www.esi-pro.com/). These sound cards are pretty good. The driver is also used for lots of other equipment. There is already a new version of this driver available. I asked the CEO of soundgraph already of this new driver will be distributed from the Soundgraph site as well

1) It is indeed a 4 in 4 out soundcard. In the VDJ config menu, on the sound cards tab you have to select the advanced setup. Then the Left desk is the DVinyl2020 Asio driver #0 for left and #1 for right. The right desk has then #2 for left and #3 for right.
You don't have to set up the inputs yourself.
There are no wdm drivers shipped with it. Maybe some drivers will work, but I have not tested it.
There is no switch for Phono or line selection. You could just attach your gear to the inputs.

2) Soundgraph said that replacement records are available from the same sources as the hardware. I will ask if my supplier have them and what they will cost. Post this later.

3) You are right needle drop is not supported. Maybe later with the replacement of the records.
Loops, cue points are not working with your cd players. I do it as follows: insert the cd, it automatically will cue on the start of the (timecode) Cd. Load a song to the VDJ deck, select the proper cue. Hit start on the controller. Hit play on your cd player, he song will start. If you would like to re cue, hit cue of the cd player first, then cue on the soundgraph controller.
Loops could be selected from within VDJ or Soundgraph controller.
Master tempo selected on the cd player will kill the timecode signal and should never be used. Instead select the Master tempo of VDJ itself

4) It is very easy to navigate trough your cue points. Just hit the "Cue/Loop" button until the CUE led is burning. Then hit the right arrow button (on the controller) to move to the next cue point and the left arrow button to move to the previous button.
Other usefull option is browsing through your folders. When you hit the "Search" button once you browse throug the current folder by turning on the jog wheel. Hitting the search button twice let you navigate through your folder list. Pushing the jog will load the song

Hopefully this will aswer your questions
Ewout

 

发表时间 Wed 14 Jul 04 @ 9:10 pm
ProtoPRO InfinityMember since 2003
Great review Ewout. Damm damm damm, I had missed the setup of Dvinyl in the playlist editor. Maybe reading the manuals isnt bad after all. Great, great great tip.

I do not have the ASIO installed as I have seperated soundcards (I use the ECHO Indigo DJ for my laptop), so I can set the latency to 11 ms and no problems, but much much better respons time.

I also set Pitch-bend range to 4% (This increases the sensitivity of teh system I guess (default = 20%), now when manipulating the record the BPM doesnt react completely weird). Also set pitch-bend arrival time to 0.5. I am pretty clueless what this does, but it also improved responsiveness.

This has improved my main problem with Dvinyl so much that I will probably play vinyls on the party I play coming saturday (see http://www.djproto.com for agenda and music, hey we could organise a Dvinyl party!)

Anyway, I got hold of my stuff in 1 week I think from Thoman musikhaus. they got good service, cheap prices. Gonna order extra records just to see if they can get them for me.

I use Ortofon Concordes. I will take those with me if I am gonna play, but so far most venue I have been had Ortofon's.

Let's keep posting this stuff. It certainly helps me big time.

Proto
 

发表时间 Thu 15 Jul 04 @ 6:58 am
apopsisdjPRO InfinitySenior staffMember since 2003
Ewout, i'd like to thank you.

For the wdm driver see if it is recognized as "usb audio" device, these drivers are built in windows xp but are limited
to 2in/2out. (they work with my Maya Ex usb, just plug and play) Just see the control panel in soundcards.

The lack of needle dropping is important in some cases i think,
for example it is little "tricky" to use cd players to control,
you have to press que in the cdplayer and the controler,
as you wrote .. (2 times)
This will force you to use the controller only i think..

Overall it is what i expected, i recently tested MV dvs
and it has simillar results. As for the needles i also have
the stantons 500 AL (i see your other post for the needles)
They are working for me (in dvs) but another user had to
change them for some new Ortofons to make it work.
If you can afford, the Shure M44-7 are the best.

For the phono inputs, maybe there is an input level that you
have missed in setup, or you can ask for this from d-vinyl ?
(Also an RIAA bypass is needed, its not only gain..)
Its a shame to not use the inputs for line in recording.
Have tried to record the inputs ?

I liked very much the browse with the jog wheels.
Browsing the folders tree is easy with the jog ?
(when you have many folders/subfolders ?)
So, you have to use the computer keyboard only for typing
in the search field.

See you.
 

发表时间 Thu 15 Jul 04 @ 12:48 pm
Proto,
about the pitch bend arrival time:
First you set how much you would like to bend (you now set it to 4%).
Then you set the arival time. This is the time it will take to be on the maximum pitch bend. So when you set it to 2 seconds this means that when you slow down the platter it will take 2 seconds before it is on -4%.
You could also see this as the reaction time. In other words: How fast will the system react on speed changes.

Glad the review helped to improve your setup. I bought my controller also at Thomann.

I saw that the Ortofon cartridges have 6mV output that is twice the value of the ones I'm using at the moment. I also saw the Stanton Trackmaster II RS. This one has also 6mV. This one looks quite the same as the Ortofon. I think I prefer the Stantons

Ewout
 

发表时间 Fri 16 Jul 04 @ 6:45 pm
ProtoPRO InfinityMember since 2003
OK, I get it. So better to set Pitch Arrival to 2 then. I only need .1/.2 changes in the BPM.

 

发表时间 Sat 17 Jul 04 @ 7:55 am
apopsisdjPRO InfinitySenior staffMember since 2003
So the d-vinyl software has to run in the background,
all the time and Vdj takes the settings from it to work ?
Is it not independent ?
 

发表时间 Mon 19 Jul 04 @ 11:25 am
Sorry for the late response, but I was spinning last weekend

Apopsis
- About the WDM driver, I haven't time to test it. Hopefully I have some time during this week
- Needle drop is useful in some cases, but also is not usefull setting loops in VDJ. See also my other post in another topic. You are right that you have to press the cd player and the controller. But you could start and pitch bend with your cd players only. You only need the controller for setting the correct cue.
- The Shure needles have the highest output, but are mainly designed for hip hop use. When I also like to play dance and house, I think I will buy the Shure Whitelabel, or the Stanton Trackmaster Roger Sanchez edition
- I already asked Soundgraph about the input. They said the never heard of it? I could not find any set up of input values. In next versions a gain volume on the backside of the controller would be very helpfull
- The browsing function works very well, even with lots of folders.
- The Soundgraph software is not running. What happens is that with the setup program a file or some registry entries are set (I have to find out), with the settings made. These settings are then used by the Asio drivers
Ewout



 

发表时间 Mon 19 Jul 04 @ 12:56 pm
ProtoPRO InfinityMember since 2003
Tested the Pitch arrival rate. I like 0.5 the best. It gives a much better sensitivity of the records.

A different problem though: I too was spinning llast weekend. It ws a 4 hour set. But after 3 hours suddenly VDJ started skipping or floating the beats. Made it impossible to mix right. Now my laptop (P3-800, 375MB) wasn't tweaked completely, but somehow due to the fact that it worked fine for 3 hours, it looks like some memory leak got me.
 

发表时间 Mon 19 Jul 04 @ 1:14 pm
djzeroPRO InfinityMember since 2003
apopsis it is full independant of the D-vinyl software and completly integrated into vdj
 

发表时间 Mon 19 Jul 04 @ 1:39 pm
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