bagpuss
This is an interesting question, By hardware I refer to TT's, CD decks, Mixers etc, by Software I mean VDJ, Traktor, SSL, Software controllers etc. Because of course all these new digital units have internal software.
Looking at new products from companies like Numark and Pioneer it seems their units are now taking away from the benefit of "Software DJ'ing", MP3 CD's, MP3 DVD's, onboard HD's and laptop HD support, even IPOD DJ'ing.., mass storage seems to be the new trend in hardware, which is one of the biggest arguements in favour of using A laptop.
One of my arguements in favour of using A laptop is the luxurious 15" Display giving you complete control, who ever said control was about the size of the platter?, but again the displays on the new breed of CD players/decks are improving, and it will only take Pioneer to support A Graphics output on one of their units and you could rig it up to A monitor no problem.
This would also make club installation easier, rather than DJ's bring A laptop and the Club manager having to trust the particular laptop from failing. The installation would no doubt use A desktop over A laptop, again currently much more stable and robust.
If you could plug your external HD into A CDJ1000mk4 (let's say) would you still take your laptop to the club?, wouldn't this cut out A lot of set-up time?.
Will the hardware units kill the software solutions?, I can imagine mobile DJ's using Laptops for A very long time, but club DJ's, hmm this one is hard to call.
We've been talking about the benefits of Software solutions here for ages, but with what the hardware industry is comming out with, doesn't that mean Software is soon to have A greater struggle finding it's self in DJ booths?,.
My view is that Hardware and software will continue to merge to the point you have "All in ones" which are already in early stages now, You will have hardware units with 'software' style interfaces on external monitors, thus giving the hands on feel of CD decks/vinyl with the display and control of something like VDJ.
Finally the laws have their say too, whilst it's currently illegal in my country (UK) to perform infornt of an Audience with 'copied' Audio disks and DVD's, it is legal to play from A Laptops HD providing you pay an annual licence of £250 to PPL.
I could go on forever talking about various views but What do you think?
Looking at new products from companies like Numark and Pioneer it seems their units are now taking away from the benefit of "Software DJ'ing", MP3 CD's, MP3 DVD's, onboard HD's and laptop HD support, even IPOD DJ'ing.., mass storage seems to be the new trend in hardware, which is one of the biggest arguements in favour of using A laptop.
One of my arguements in favour of using A laptop is the luxurious 15" Display giving you complete control, who ever said control was about the size of the platter?, but again the displays on the new breed of CD players/decks are improving, and it will only take Pioneer to support A Graphics output on one of their units and you could rig it up to A monitor no problem.
This would also make club installation easier, rather than DJ's bring A laptop and the Club manager having to trust the particular laptop from failing. The installation would no doubt use A desktop over A laptop, again currently much more stable and robust.
If you could plug your external HD into A CDJ1000mk4 (let's say) would you still take your laptop to the club?, wouldn't this cut out A lot of set-up time?.
Will the hardware units kill the software solutions?, I can imagine mobile DJ's using Laptops for A very long time, but club DJ's, hmm this one is hard to call.
We've been talking about the benefits of Software solutions here for ages, but with what the hardware industry is comming out with, doesn't that mean Software is soon to have A greater struggle finding it's self in DJ booths?,.
My view is that Hardware and software will continue to merge to the point you have "All in ones" which are already in early stages now, You will have hardware units with 'software' style interfaces on external monitors, thus giving the hands on feel of CD decks/vinyl with the display and control of something like VDJ.
Finally the laws have their say too, whilst it's currently illegal in my country (UK) to perform infornt of an Audience with 'copied' Audio disks and DVD's, it is legal to play from A Laptops HD providing you pay an annual licence of £250 to PPL.
I could go on forever talking about various views but What do you think?
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 4:13 pm
vpcdj
that can't happen coz of one thing which u seemed to overlook--UPGRADING.
since its impossible to upgrade those hardware that'd not the way to go. just look at the death of the beatmachine. and even if the companies want to go that route there'll always be another software company that'll keep on releasing software so ppl will stick with the computer based software.
these days all u need to make (or mix) music is a laptop.
since its impossible to upgrade those hardware that'd not the way to go. just look at the death of the beatmachine. and even if the companies want to go that route there'll always be another software company that'll keep on releasing software so ppl will stick with the computer based software.
these days all u need to make (or mix) music is a laptop.
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 4:44 pm
bagpuss
Yes that's true, but I overlooked many things deliberatly, as I didn't want to rant on for too long :).
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 4:48 pm
dj maddsound
I personally think that lap tops are not the future. As these next generation CD decks and MP3 decks come out, they will replace the need for a lap top. Possibly the MP3 decks(with platters) will be connected to an external hard drive with all the needed software already intergrated in the decks themselves. With 12" monitors that unfold over the 12" platter where the DJ can upload songs to. The MP3 decks would have an internal mixer where a fader would be. All the channels included. The decks would have a modum to be able to upgrade when they are available.
That's what I think...
MS
That's what I think...
MS
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 4:57 pm
vpcdj
u could buy the latest cd/mp3 player and by the time u walk out of the shop its already outdated.
laptop are not the future coz PCMCIA products dont come out quick and are generally expensive. so the desktop (PCI) is still ahead of the laptop if u ask me. like one of those little (9.6in. x 9.6in.) computers http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?q=small+cases+pci&pid=2251647944011652681&oid=4945689228260448469&btnG=Search+Froogle&scoring=mrd&hl=en and a flat screen so i can carry it everywhere.
they have 4 pci slots, and come with USB2.
i dont know about how they handle heating tho.
---------------------
CD decks. mp3 decks. i dont think so. CD as we know it it's dead. labels still try to stick to selling cds but download tracks already surpassed cd single tracks. for the masses mp3 players are diffinately working.
+ there'r so many different audio formats that limit mp3 players for pros. in the underground looks like video already overtaken mp3 format. +searching for a song in a 1000+ library can be a problem.
laptop are not the future coz PCMCIA products dont come out quick and are generally expensive. so the desktop (PCI) is still ahead of the laptop if u ask me. like one of those little (9.6in. x 9.6in.) computers http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?q=small+cases+pci&pid=2251647944011652681&oid=4945689228260448469&btnG=Search+Froogle&scoring=mrd&hl=en and a flat screen so i can carry it everywhere.
they have 4 pci slots, and come with USB2.
i dont know about how they handle heating tho.
---------------------
CD decks. mp3 decks. i dont think so. CD as we know it it's dead. labels still try to stick to selling cds but download tracks already surpassed cd single tracks. for the masses mp3 players are diffinately working.
+ there'r so many different audio formats that limit mp3 players for pros. in the underground looks like video already overtaken mp3 format. +searching for a song in a 1000+ library can be a problem.
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 5:35 pm
Superstom
just my opinion:
the first ten years, both solutions will both be used. Imagine a player, with a dvd drive that plays mp3 files. You can store about 400-500 tracks on one dvd (proper quality). You would have tio scroll and scroll and scroll. It will take some time before you have found the song.
I think the best solution is a mixer, where you could attach a monitor and a keyboard. This mixer has a harddrive build in (replacable?) or you could attach your usb drive to it. When you select a song you could send it (by utp, usb or firewire) to one of your players (cdj1000 mk10?), like the way you load atrack in one of the vdj decks. Then you could play the song on your decks, like you could do at this moment.
This could be the downside of for example a Numark iCdx, you probably need 2 harddrives with the same songs on both (or [Numark read this] a connection between both decks could be created, so you could hook your harddrive to one of the decks, the other player could also use the songs from the harddrive). You probably also need 2 keyboards for searching. Thats why I made the mixer the center of the setup.
I will think that the media, like vinyl, dvd, cds will be used less and less during time
Ewout
the first ten years, both solutions will both be used. Imagine a player, with a dvd drive that plays mp3 files. You can store about 400-500 tracks on one dvd (proper quality). You would have tio scroll and scroll and scroll. It will take some time before you have found the song.
I think the best solution is a mixer, where you could attach a monitor and a keyboard. This mixer has a harddrive build in (replacable?) or you could attach your usb drive to it. When you select a song you could send it (by utp, usb or firewire) to one of your players (cdj1000 mk10?), like the way you load atrack in one of the vdj decks. Then you could play the song on your decks, like you could do at this moment.
This could be the downside of for example a Numark iCdx, you probably need 2 harddrives with the same songs on both (or [Numark read this] a connection between both decks could be created, so you could hook your harddrive to one of the decks, the other player could also use the songs from the harddrive). You probably also need 2 keyboards for searching. Thats why I made the mixer the center of the setup.
I will think that the media, like vinyl, dvd, cds will be used less and less during time
Ewout
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 5:45 pm
djsherz
While I like the look of some of this new hardware that's just around the corner (no I'm not starting another "ooooh have you seen what Numark are up to" topic!), I think it would be a shame if the hardware took over completely. Once you buy a piece of hardware, that's it - you're stuck with it. No doubt there will be variations on a theme, firmware upgrades etc, but there it is. It becomes more widely used, and soon becomes an industry standard. Something new comes along, potentially better, but people don't want to gamble on it because its not the "industry standard". I can remember not so long ago when the Denon 2000F cd player was king - installed in just about every club I went to. Great machine in it's day, but outstayed it's welcome - it got to a point where there was so much more advanced stuff on the market, but it remained the tried and tested "standard". It's a bit of a stalemate when venues don't install improved kit, because they know the DJs are familiar with the old. Some might argue that there are technically better turntables in the world than the SL1200/1210 (and no I don't want to start any arguements!) but that's what you'll find in 90 per cent of venues.
Software's a bit different - once you've spent some money on a decent computer system, you're left with a piece of kit that's far more flexible. Software tends to be less of a financial gamble, so people will be more willing to give it a go when something new turns up. Lots of different DJs using different software, rather than everybody blindly following the leader. Healthy competition and diversity beween companies brings us more choice, better value for money, and technological advances. Long live the software solution!
Software's a bit different - once you've spent some money on a decent computer system, you're left with a piece of kit that's far more flexible. Software tends to be less of a financial gamble, so people will be more willing to give it a go when something new turns up. Lots of different DJs using different software, rather than everybody blindly following the leader. Healthy competition and diversity beween companies brings us more choice, better value for money, and technological advances. Long live the software solution!
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 7:36 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
agree ;) the software solution has its advantages...
Lately software has gained more and more respect and users, so I'm sure that hardware dj companies will make hardware that will try to compete with software solutions.
Both hardware and software has its pro and cons, and in my opinion, using both can be a great aproach... either timecode, or as controller... :)
In the end, I think some of the new (numark and pioneer) inventions can benefit the software users :)
Lately software has gained more and more respect and users, so I'm sure that hardware dj companies will make hardware that will try to compete with software solutions.
Both hardware and software has its pro and cons, and in my opinion, using both can be a great aproach... either timecode, or as controller... :)
In the end, I think some of the new (numark and pioneer) inventions can benefit the software users :)
发表时间 Sat 08 Apr 06 @ 8:04 pm
101010101
@vpcdj
that case can handle alot of heat, my father has the exact case :D
he does on-the-fly video editing constantly ripping video then edit lol he uses it like a DVR, edits out comercials and burns dvds of his favorite shows or movies.
lol i should go visit dad test vdj trial on it and pound the piss out of it :p see if it over heats "if he'll let me lmao"
that case can handle alot of heat, my father has the exact case :D
he does on-the-fly video editing constantly ripping video then edit lol he uses it like a DVR, edits out comercials and burns dvds of his favorite shows or movies.
lol i should go visit dad test vdj trial on it and pound the piss out of it :p see if it over heats "if he'll let me lmao"
发表时间 Sun 09 Apr 06 @ 4:15 am
A Man and His Music
@vpcdj
I have had that case for 2 years. I bring it into the club, 5 days a week, 8 hrs a day. Sometimes, I do a double, so that is 15 hrs. Three internal hard drives, a dual layer DVD drive, 1g of ram, p4 3.0 HT, 800 FSB, WT 192 sound card, ATI 9600 w 256mb video card. That was fine until I got VDJ in AUG. Now I have added 2 ext hd's for video, and a nVidia 6600 gt 128 mb video card. There is also a modem in one pci slot, and it comes with a blower fan, that takes up the other slot. The draw back, 300 w power supply. At the time it was the biggest you could get in a SFF. Two 17 in monitors, and yes I hook this up everyday.
I have had that case for 2 years. I bring it into the club, 5 days a week, 8 hrs a day. Sometimes, I do a double, so that is 15 hrs. Three internal hard drives, a dual layer DVD drive, 1g of ram, p4 3.0 HT, 800 FSB, WT 192 sound card, ATI 9600 w 256mb video card. That was fine until I got VDJ in AUG. Now I have added 2 ext hd's for video, and a nVidia 6600 gt 128 mb video card. There is also a modem in one pci slot, and it comes with a blower fan, that takes up the other slot. The draw back, 300 w power supply. At the time it was the biggest you could get in a SFF. Two 17 in monitors, and yes I hook this up everyday.
发表时间 Sun 09 Apr 06 @ 8:20 am
vpcdj
for "real" heads heat is not a problem--just take out the side. noise level cant be a problem coz when im on computer i'm too focused to worry about pc noise.
hdd space can be problem coz it only has space for 2 hdds. I'd like 3.
power supply shouldnt be a problem coz u can get splitters.
4 PCI slots is more than enough.
my pc just died 2 days ago and i'm looking at one of these. at 8X10X13 and a flat screen, thats a mobile pc for me.
hdd space can be problem coz it only has space for 2 hdds. I'd like 3.
power supply shouldnt be a problem coz u can get splitters.
4 PCI slots is more than enough.
my pc just died 2 days ago and i'm looking at one of these. at 8X10X13 and a flat screen, thats a mobile pc for me.
发表时间 Sun 09 Apr 06 @ 9:21 pm
asymptote
Maybe we should bear in mind that a lot of these products that seem very tempting may take quite a while to actually be released. (With the exception of the Numark timecode package.) In that time VDJ will have developed even further and so will computers.
For example the HDCD1 from Numark came out in the UK in January this year price around £1200. It had been shown at trade shows for at least 2 years. So far I haven't heard of anyone using one in the UK. It doesn't have any bpm readout so matching has to be done by ear and it only has a 80G hard drive. So it is far behind a vdj setup.
Maybe the new products will come out quickly, but maybe they won't. At the moment we have a great software product which will work with reasonably priced laptops. Most people should be able to get a vdj system up and working for around £600. I get a feeling that a lot of these 'new' products might work out very expensive in business terms, because their secondhand value is likely to plummet as other products come out.
Is there anybody here who has used the Numark hdcd1 yet?
I suspect not, because it's bl****y expensive compared to VDJ and a laptop.
For example the HDCD1 from Numark came out in the UK in January this year price around £1200. It had been shown at trade shows for at least 2 years. So far I haven't heard of anyone using one in the UK. It doesn't have any bpm readout so matching has to be done by ear and it only has a 80G hard drive. So it is far behind a vdj setup.
Maybe the new products will come out quickly, but maybe they won't. At the moment we have a great software product which will work with reasonably priced laptops. Most people should be able to get a vdj system up and working for around £600. I get a feeling that a lot of these 'new' products might work out very expensive in business terms, because their secondhand value is likely to plummet as other products come out.
Is there anybody here who has used the Numark hdcd1 yet?
I suspect not, because it's bl****y expensive compared to VDJ and a laptop.
发表时间 Sun 09 Apr 06 @ 10:06 pm
A Man and His Music
@vpcdj
The Aria box wil accept 3 internal HDs. I have 1 60 for programs, that is under the DVD drive. I have 2 120g for music. They hang sideways on either side. The 300w power supply could be a problem, because my new video card ask for a min of 350w. I did a lot of research and read a lot of reviews from other users, and took a chance. It works for me, but I also got a powered usb hub, since I added 2 external HDs. The box was very quiet until I got the new 6600 gt video card. That thing is loud.
The Aria box wil accept 3 internal HDs. I have 1 60 for programs, that is under the DVD drive. I have 2 120g for music. They hang sideways on either side. The 300w power supply could be a problem, because my new video card ask for a min of 350w. I did a lot of research and read a lot of reviews from other users, and took a chance. It works for me, but I also got a powered usb hub, since I added 2 external HDs. The box was very quiet until I got the new 6600 gt video card. That thing is loud.
发表时间 Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 3:03 am
VirtualV
Hey do you guys know if it's possible to run a fully digital setup like the Denon DN-5000S and scratch?
The tables by themselves are needleless are made for mp3 and so are digital.
However, I would like to run them like time-encoded vinyl.
Can I do that?
Can I run the Denon's with the time encoded CD and run that on two tables and have them connect with VDJ for storage and effects?
So far noone has been able to answer me and I am becoming very annoyed.
I don't want to go out and buy something that will not work for me you know?
I don't know if I would need to go with real vinyl turn tables and just run time encoded vinyls or to run the time encoded cd which is what i want to do but am not sure if it will work with VDJ.
Thanks a lot
The tables by themselves are needleless are made for mp3 and so are digital.
However, I would like to run them like time-encoded vinyl.
Can I do that?
Can I run the Denon's with the time encoded CD and run that on two tables and have them connect with VDJ for storage and effects?
So far noone has been able to answer me and I am becoming very annoyed.
I don't want to go out and buy something that will not work for me you know?
I don't know if I would need to go with real vinyl turn tables and just run time encoded vinyls or to run the time encoded cd which is what i want to do but am not sure if it will work with VDJ.
Thanks a lot
发表时间 Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 8:25 pm
bagpuss
VirtualV,
Timecoded CD control is indeed possible with Virtual DJ, you can download the file at the bottom of this page: http://www.virtualdj.com/products/timecode/
There are also instructions and other useful information on that page, Just burn the file to CD and away you go! you can even test it with the VDJ Demo (one deck) ;)
Timecoded CD control is indeed possible with Virtual DJ, you can download the file at the bottom of this page: http://www.virtualdj.com/products/timecode/
There are also instructions and other useful information on that page, Just burn the file to CD and away you go! you can even test it with the VDJ Demo (one deck) ;)
发表时间 Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 8:39 pm
vpcdj
using both hardware and software can benefit the software company like serato (well i dont really understand how serato works) does so that u can only use the software when u have the hardware. problem with that is that if something better comes along ppl would almost immediately stop using that software.
and with hardware + software there's no trying out a demo.
if the software is not undoubtably the best, forcing users to use it with hardware wont work. unless the company offers a download to unlock the software to use the computer's sound card.
and with hardware + software there's no trying out a demo.
if the software is not undoubtably the best, forcing users to use it with hardware wont work. unless the company offers a download to unlock the software to use the computer's sound card.
发表时间 Tue 11 Apr 06 @ 5:05 pm
Dj Xeo
otherwise known as a serial number, software is allways going to be more flexible than hardware, its just a questoin of if the reliabliltiy oh hardware solutions and the turn key nes of them wins out over software in a specific argument
发表时间 Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 12:58 am
101010101
i'll make my opinion very short n simple :D
software if a problem happens = update/downloadable patch/reconfiguration on the fly "easiest"
hardware if a problem happens = pakaging and shipping back to company to company for warrenty work waiting months and months on end "hardest"
:D this is why i'm glad VDJ exists :D
software if a problem happens = update/downloadable patch/reconfiguration on the fly "easiest"
hardware if a problem happens = pakaging and shipping back to company to company for warrenty work waiting months and months on end "hardest"
:D this is why i'm glad VDJ exists :D
发表时间 Thu 13 Apr 06 @ 1:06 am
bagpuss
I think the DJ Software's market position is greatly improving, more and more companies are releasing software and the hardware available to control software is more diverse than anything, with dedicated controllers as well as virtually every hardware device now being compatible it's no longer a valid argument to say "software is for the point and click DJ", it's simply not the case anymore.
I think DJ software will continue to have a place as long as marketing strategies are smart, updates and future versions aim to meet and surpass the current features available on current hardware.
The only way the laptop/software will survive in DJ booths across the globe is if the advantages always exist, relevant to the job and made clear in the industry.
The gap is narrowing though, digital decks are now able to store thousands of tracks via HD's and other large storage formats such as DVD and Ipod.
At the moment the large high quality screen is of clear advantage, The database and song structure graphs on VDJ are better than any hardware solution by far.
So there are still some solid advantages using software over hardware alone, but as the gap is narrowing in favor of hardware it's going to be a greater challenge for software to stay ahead on the features and convenience front.
The speed that software can update should be an advantage for some time to come, I think software can benefit by creating features in the software that would other wise cost a lot of cash on a hardware unit, such as built in effects to rival those on expensive effect machines, the argument with decks is less valid because I never see the physical deck leaving the DJ booth.
I think DJ software will continue to have a place as long as marketing strategies are smart, updates and future versions aim to meet and surpass the current features available on current hardware.
The only way the laptop/software will survive in DJ booths across the globe is if the advantages always exist, relevant to the job and made clear in the industry.
The gap is narrowing though, digital decks are now able to store thousands of tracks via HD's and other large storage formats such as DVD and Ipod.
At the moment the large high quality screen is of clear advantage, The database and song structure graphs on VDJ are better than any hardware solution by far.
So there are still some solid advantages using software over hardware alone, but as the gap is narrowing in favor of hardware it's going to be a greater challenge for software to stay ahead on the features and convenience front.
The speed that software can update should be an advantage for some time to come, I think software can benefit by creating features in the software that would other wise cost a lot of cash on a hardware unit, such as built in effects to rival those on expensive effect machines, the argument with decks is less valid because I never see the physical deck leaving the DJ booth.
发表时间 Thu 13 Apr 06 @ 1:31 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
well.. the OPOSITE will definitively never be true.. Software will NEVER EVER kill the hardware... :)
So, the question is more what ROLE software can have for the dj.
For the home and beginner dj:
- HUGE role as as a learning tool etc
For the mobile working dj :
- Big roles, being able to bring loads of music, easy to carry and setup, and very flexible and fast music database
For pro djs :
- A welcome extra in the booth, both with pro controllers and timecode use.
Software might get a bigger challenge from dj profesionall mp3 hardware in the future... And the use of the laptop for the pro djs might be the real challenge. But I think it will be room for both, hardware and software... :)
So, the question is more what ROLE software can have for the dj.
For the home and beginner dj:
- HUGE role as as a learning tool etc
For the mobile working dj :
- Big roles, being able to bring loads of music, easy to carry and setup, and very flexible and fast music database
For pro djs :
- A welcome extra in the booth, both with pro controllers and timecode use.
Software might get a bigger challenge from dj profesionall mp3 hardware in the future... And the use of the laptop for the pro djs might be the real challenge. But I think it will be room for both, hardware and software... :)
发表时间 Thu 13 Apr 06 @ 1:53 am
