MrDjLinton
A Man and His Music wrote :
I can't tell the difference between A, B, W, or blue key. I made up my mind to use one software, and have zero confusion. I don't know if my keys are the same as some other software, or if they are right or wrong. If they are wrong, they are all wrong, which makes them the same. If they are right, they are all right, which makes them the same. The last time someone came up to me and said "Hey Rick, that last song you mixed was out of key". I remember, NEVER.
Exactly This, and well said too
发表时间 Tue 04 Aug 20 @ 8:31 am
Look, I'm really happy for those on this thread that have not had anyone tell you that you are not mixing in key. Cheers! But since I rely HEAVILY on key which means, I am looking at tracks grouped by key - this means songs I play together will NOT show up within the same folders anymore. Basically, this changes my entire organization of how I have come to DJ over the last few years. So, not having a reason for why software makes decisions is not acceptable for me. Theres a lot I like about VDJ but I just don't get the feeling I'm the target user here. If I can find a way to make it work, reliably, this could work. But I'm struggling. Though I have to say - it's been BY FAR the best option to simply using USB sticks in my Pioneer decks.
发表时间 Fri 07 Aug 20 @ 2:00 am
groovindj
As stated much earlier in the thread, if you prefer MIK, then just use MIK to set your keys.
You don't have to show the key column in VDJ, or use the key info from VDJ. If you think it's wrong, get rid of it.
You don't have to show the key column in VDJ, or use the key info from VDJ. If you think it's wrong, get rid of it.
发表时间 Fri 07 Aug 20 @ 6:49 am
olivier REMUX
Hi,
now VDJ read the .flac INITIALKEY tag since early V6059
BUILD 6059 (2020-08-06)
-Read INITIALKEY from ogg and flac tags
I've deleted all old KEY "tags", then :
i analyse all my library with rekordbox (free), with the write id3 InitialKEY option checked, and i use in VDJ read key from tag in VDJ option, and now my Key are right :)
VDJ read INITIALKEY from .flac (b ut only if the old KEY tags was deleted...), but if i edit manually tags inside VDJ, still write a KEY wrong tags (not INITIALKEY) that take priority to INITIALKEY reading.
->it's a little bug, with tag editor and keys with .flac.
Sure ADDION will fix it quickly :) (ok for reading INITIAKEY in flac, but still not writting in editor in V6067...)
Regards,
now VDJ read the .flac INITIALKEY tag since early V6059
BUILD 6059 (2020-08-06)
-Read INITIALKEY from ogg and flac tags
I've deleted all old KEY "tags", then :
i analyse all my library with rekordbox (free), with the write id3 InitialKEY option checked, and i use in VDJ read key from tag in VDJ option, and now my Key are right :)
VDJ read INITIALKEY from .flac (b ut only if the old KEY tags was deleted...), but if i edit manually tags inside VDJ, still write a KEY wrong tags (not INITIALKEY) that take priority to INITIALKEY reading.
->it's a little bug, with tag editor and keys with .flac.
Sure ADDION will fix it quickly :) (ok for reading INITIAKEY in flac, but still not writting in editor in V6067...)
Regards,
发表时间 Thu 13 Aug 20 @ 1:48 pm
Adion
If you have useKeyFromTag enabled that shouldn't matter though
发表时间 Thu 13 Aug 20 @ 1:51 pm
olivier REMUX
Adion wrote :
If you have useKeyFromTag enabled that shouldn't matter though
Hi,
Adion, Thanks for your answer, and good work :)
I've useKeyFromTag enabled.
i've checked with mediainfo.
If i've no KEY tag, but only INITIALKEY tag in my flac, VDJ INITIALTAG in .flac : good.
-> but if the .flac file have still an old KEY TAG with INITIALTAG (BOTH TAGS) : it's the "KEY" tag that takes priority in key row display, and not "INITIALTAG" of the .flac.
To reproduce the bug :
- set useKeyFromTag in VDJ options
- load a .flac with only INITALKEY TAG, for example in Dm
-> it will display in VDJ Dm
-> but if you edit manually the KEY inside VDJ tag editor, for exemple Cm
-> VDJ doesn't change the "INITALKEY" TAG but create a wrong "KEY" TAG in flac, with Cm
-> if you read the .tags of flac with mediainfo you will see : INITIALKEY at DM, and Key at Cm
and now with i use useKeyFromTag, when thera are BOTH Tags : INITIALKEY and KEY, INITIALKEY tag not take priority, it's the wrong key tags that is read and show......
it would by nice for .flac, that when we change the KEY manually in the editor, it's the INITIALKEY that should by written in Flac (like other industry DJ software), not the old wrong "Key" tag...
Checked with Version 6067 and 6076
Regards,
Olivier
Anyway, even if VDJ, is one of the best VDJ software, VDJ algorithm Key detection have to be improved. and Waiting for a Key algo update, i use REKORDBOX and MIK 8.5 , to have more accurate keys Id3 in my flac, with useKeyFromTag VDJ option)
(Rekordbox write and read the good INITIALKEY tag for flac, not wrong KEY tag, when option write in ID3 tag is checked)
发表时间 Sun 23 Aug 20 @ 7:35 am
Adion
Do you have any source on why INITIALKEY is the correct tag and KEY is the wrong tag?
Either way though, if you change the key in VDJ and save the tag, and then reload, it is still the changed tag that you expect to be loaded, so it's not different from VDJ writing to the INITIALKEY tag.
Either way though, if you change the key in VDJ and save the tag, and then reload, it is still the changed tag that you expect to be loaded, so it's not different from VDJ writing to the INITIALKEY tag.
发表时间 Sun 23 Aug 20 @ 10:39 am
olivier REMUX
Hi,
If i edit in VDJ manually tag of a flac, the KEY tag, it create a KEY tag..... and it should write the INTIALKEY tag, not create a wrong Id" "KEY tag".
I speak about a wrong ID3 tag (VDJ writte KEY instead of INITIALKEY for flac in the VDJ tags editor), not about a wrong key Tag....
Please, when we edit manually Key tags in VDJ editor with .flac, please use "INITIALKEY" for writing, not a "KEY" wrong syntax in ID3 of flac...
just check with MEDIAINFO, and VDJ tags editor, and change a KEY, you will see....
I will just be able to change manually the INTIALKEY tag in VDJ editor, not create a wrong "KEY" tag, that is not the Sandard for writting key in a .flac file.
Please check the VDJ .tags editor with .flac and check with MEDIAINFO.
Rekordbox write the key in "INITIALKEY" with .flac (With ID3 key option activated), VDJ V6076 write in a wrong "KEY" tag in then VDJ manual ID3 tag editor.
I love VDJ, but Keys tags /DATABASE / detection........ not as good as the software or stems.....
Regards,
Olivier
Anyway, if the KEY detection in VDJ was good, i would not have to edit manually or change, the key, ot use Rekordbox to write INITIALKEY Tag in .flac
And i don't want to use Rekordbox anymore as soon VDJ KEY Detection is fixed (without several method in options, just one algo that work, a simple way...), and will as good as RKB or MIXED in KEY in next updates
If i edit in VDJ manually tag of a flac, the KEY tag, it create a KEY tag..... and it should write the INTIALKEY tag, not create a wrong Id" "KEY tag".
I speak about a wrong ID3 tag (VDJ writte KEY instead of INITIALKEY for flac in the VDJ tags editor), not about a wrong key Tag....
Please, when we edit manually Key tags in VDJ editor with .flac, please use "INITIALKEY" for writing, not a "KEY" wrong syntax in ID3 of flac...
just check with MEDIAINFO, and VDJ tags editor, and change a KEY, you will see....
I will just be able to change manually the INTIALKEY tag in VDJ editor, not create a wrong "KEY" tag, that is not the Sandard for writting key in a .flac file.
Please check the VDJ .tags editor with .flac and check with MEDIAINFO.
Rekordbox write the key in "INITIALKEY" with .flac (With ID3 key option activated), VDJ V6076 write in a wrong "KEY" tag in then VDJ manual ID3 tag editor.
I love VDJ, but Keys tags /DATABASE / detection........ not as good as the software or stems.....
Regards,
Olivier
Anyway, if the KEY detection in VDJ was good, i would not have to edit manually or change, the key, ot use Rekordbox to write INITIALKEY Tag in .flac
And i don't want to use Rekordbox anymore as soon VDJ KEY Detection is fixed (without several method in options, just one algo that work, a simple way...), and will as good as RKB or MIXED in KEY in next updates
发表时间 Tue 25 Aug 20 @ 8:40 am
IIDEEJAYII
I have Mixed in Key and really don't use it for, I am believer of the wisdom of Man and his Music when he says:
I did come across this discussion, that may be of interest to this thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DJs/comments/cewbal/key_analysis_accuracy_comparison_2019/
Here is the spreadsheet showing the keys detected by most major softwares, for each of the 840 tracks.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PBzUvNh__lwpBbotIog81xKOSkftPdIFylkgzCeCAOY/edit#gid=0
The assumed correct keys were determined by ear by 3 "professionals"
And an additional Key Analysis Accuracy Comparison 2019 - Top 5 - Mislabeled Relative Major/minor
which are much less significant, which were still counted as wrong in first comparison.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z1JzFJME6mI6Ftgr1m4Ua9PyOaM2XkglaUFjzZfx9Tw/edit#gid=0
And also found this comment interesting from Yakov of Mixed in Key:
The results:
As you can see an old version of VDJ was used. I don't know all the improvements have been added to VDJ key detection since then. And this test could have been made with the Key detection set to "Electronic" (which believe was for compatibility with VDJ7), Not the new better "Broad Range" (which now there is no option, to choose wrong).
And of course the assumption is made that each track has only ONE key, and how the algo chooses to interpret variations. (even BPM cannot be detected perfectly)
A Man and His Music wrote :
I can't tell the difference between A, B, W, or blue key. I made up my mind to use one software, and have zero confusion. I don't know if my keys are the same as some other software, or if they are right or wrong. If they are wrong, they are all wrong, which makes them the same. If they are right, they are all right, which makes them the same. The last time someone came up to me and said "Hey Rick, that last song you mixed was out of key". I remember, NEVER.
I did come across this discussion, that may be of interest to this thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DJs/comments/cewbal/key_analysis_accuracy_comparison_2019/
Here is the spreadsheet showing the keys detected by most major softwares, for each of the 840 tracks.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PBzUvNh__lwpBbotIog81xKOSkftPdIFylkgzCeCAOY/edit#gid=0
The assumed correct keys were determined by ear by 3 "professionals"
bascurtiz wrote :
Dr Cole Burger, Alison Lee, Dr Christopher Harte & Roland Heap we can only assume they're skilled in their profession (a pianist, a research assistant, a lecturer/researcher in the Department of Electronic Engineering at the University of York, UK, a a former worker as sound designer at Abbey Road studios).
And an additional Key Analysis Accuracy Comparison 2019 - Top 5 - Mislabeled Relative Major/minor
which are much less significant, which were still counted as wrong in first comparison.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z1JzFJME6mI6Ftgr1m4Ua9PyOaM2XkglaUFjzZfx9Tw/edit#gid=0
And also found this comment interesting from Yakov of Mixed in Key:
Yakov wrote :
There's a really interesting thing that happens with key detection that I wanted to share. If I give the same track to 2 musicians, they will agree with each other about 70% of the time. Pick any random 2 people, give them a track, and they will hear the same key in 7/10 tracks. But for the other 3 out of 10 tracks, the first musician may say "this is C Major", and the second musician may say "this is A Minor". This happens 30% of the time.
We've never been able to find 2 humans who agree with each other more than 70% of the time on average. It's crazy. My guess it that people hear music differently, and there are probably "clusters" of different hearing types among us. Unless people are from the same cluster of hearing, they can't agree with each other 100%.
We've never been able to find 2 humans who agree with each other more than 70% of the time on average. It's crazy. My guess it that people hear music differently, and there are probably "clusters" of different hearing types among us. Unless people are from the same cluster of hearing, they can't agree with each other 100%.
The results:
Quote :
Which application is the most accurate in July 2019 when it comes down to key analysis?
1. Mixed In Key 8.5.2325.0 ~75%
2. Traktor Pro 3.2.060 ~69%
2. tuneXplorer 2.9.0.0 ~69%
3. KeyFinder 2.4 ~68%
3. Audiokeychain.com ~68%
4. rekordbox 5.6.1 Beta 2 ~63%
5. Mixvibes Cross DJ 4.0.1 ~61%
6. beaTunes 5.1.14 ~57%
7. Serato DJ Pro 2.2 ~56%
8. PCDJ Dex 3.0.14 ~47%
9. VirtualDJ 2018 b5046 ~38%
10. Mixxx 2.2.1 ~36%
1. Mixed In Key 8.5.2325.0 ~75%
2. Traktor Pro 3.2.060 ~69%
2. tuneXplorer 2.9.0.0 ~69%
3. KeyFinder 2.4 ~68%
3. Audiokeychain.com ~68%
4. rekordbox 5.6.1 Beta 2 ~63%
5. Mixvibes Cross DJ 4.0.1 ~61%
6. beaTunes 5.1.14 ~57%
7. Serato DJ Pro 2.2 ~56%
8. PCDJ Dex 3.0.14 ~47%
9. VirtualDJ 2018 b5046 ~38%
10. Mixxx 2.2.1 ~36%
As you can see an old version of VDJ was used. I don't know all the improvements have been added to VDJ key detection since then. And this test could have been made with the Key detection set to "Electronic" (which believe was for compatibility with VDJ7), Not the new better "Broad Range" (which now there is no option, to choose wrong).
And of course the assumption is made that each track has only ONE key, and how the algo chooses to interpret variations. (even BPM cannot be detected perfectly)
发表时间 Mon 15 Feb 21 @ 3:10 am