CJTheDJ
Right here it goes......I was just wondering when i rip my music i wan\'t it as small as possible so that i can cramp as much music onto my harddrive as possible but at the same time i don\'t wan\'t people to think that the sound quality is rubish so i was wondering which bit rate should i record at 192kbps, 256kbps or 320kbps and is it alright to rip music into mp3.
Thanks CJ ^_^ Peace
Thanks CJ ^_^ Peace
发表时间 Wed 11 Apr 07 @ 10:45 pm
fatkatzdj
320k will compress and keep most mids / lows.
You'll be able to tell when your mixing and gain of the next song is substantually higher because when you go from a 192 to a 320 the sound is quality / volume is noticable.... HINT: always keep your hand on the volume of the mixer for the next song.
I felt the same way when I converted my cds. I even went as low as 128 on my songs that I normally don't play ( wedding purposes ) and 320 on my club and dance songs.
I have a 60g drive but only used up about 38g so far ( 5000-6000 songs )
You'll be able to tell when your mixing and gain of the next song is substantually higher because when you go from a 192 to a 320 the sound is quality / volume is noticable.... HINT: always keep your hand on the volume of the mixer for the next song.
I felt the same way when I converted my cds. I even went as low as 128 on my songs that I normally don't play ( wedding purposes ) and 320 on my club and dance songs.
I have a 60g drive but only used up about 38g so far ( 5000-6000 songs )
发表时间 Wed 11 Apr 07 @ 11:08 pm
CJTheDJ
Thank you very much fatkatzdj you've been very helpful.
Cj
Cj
发表时间 Wed 11 Apr 07 @ 11:18 pm
A Man and His Music
I started at 192, but went to 320 when my download site offered 320. So, now all my rips are at 320, and I don't worry about hard drive space. I just bought 2 500g for $129.00/each.
发表时间 Wed 11 Apr 07 @ 11:59 pm
TopHouse
I never rip at anything less than 320 CBR. It's just not worth it.
发表时间 Thu 12 Apr 07 @ 12:34 am
IronLunatic
I've been struggling a lot about getting the right format.
Here is what I learned over the years:
* For more information about sound quality and formats get your ass to the
nex website: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php
* If you have songs encoded in 44khz or lower (or if you use the mp3 format),
keep the 'Keylock on'
Remark: The reason for this is obvious.
Facts: 20-22Khz is the highest tone normal ears hear. Facts: In digital format you need twice as much sampling speed as your highest heareable tone thus 44KHz for normal ear.
But: When you lower the pitch of a song (like on a normal turntable), your sound data move to lower wavelengths. Let say you lowered 10%, this means your 22kHz tone will be at 19,8 KHz. But suddenly you have a gap between 19,8 and 22KHz. And you do hear how high-pitched sounds are cut. This is especially noticeable with copper instruments and hihats.
For instance Hihats in nature have wavelengths op to 36kHz, but are trimmed so you only hear the hihats waves lower than 22khz to fit on a cd. Now if you lower the pitch of this trimmed hihats you suddenly will hear the trimmed part of your hihat sound. In our example of -10% pitch this would be you hear the hihat capped at 19,8 kHz (they will sound metallic).
* If you have songs encoded in mp3 use 'keylock on'.
This for a reason related to former remark. Not much people know this, but mp3 encoders firstly cut everything above 19,5kHZ prior to the compression. Why? Because normal adult ears don't hear well above 19kHz. Of course if you amplify your music with decent amplifier and boxes you can hear as adult sounds above 19kHz. Anyway, again here lower the pitch 10% and you will hear your hihats capped at 17,6kHz!!!
There is a workaround and that's the mp3 encoder in Adobe audition. In adobe audition when you 'save as' mp3 you can choose in advanced options at what frequency the codec have to trim.
* Always use VBR.
With VBR parts of a song who needs more attention will be encoded at higher bitrates.
* For Lame don't bother to get higher than 192 VBR and don't use 320 CBR.
Some scientific guy did once a comparison between not coded and encoded song and found out that a lot more information was lost with the 320CBR than with the (192 CBR).
And above 192 VBR is too slow.
* For 48Khz files don't use mp3.
Why? Because mp3 encoders are cutting anyway everything above 19,5 kHz audible or
39 kHz sampling rate.
* For best quality use Nero ACC.
A lot better algorithm than mp3 encoders and does seam to do the trick with 48kHz.
NeroAAc comes with nero burning package. But you also have a free command-line
Nero ACC encoder on the Nero website.
* Last but not least 'The kind of mp3 encoder you use DOES make a difference'
In my point of view use Lame or adobe autition. And by the way, that's one of the reasons why commercial bought mp3's sound sometimes better than you own encoded. Depends of course from who you're buying and how good you are at encoding.
Finally here is how I encode:
- Alll my CD's are encoded with Neo AAC 'default encoder options'
- I record my vinyl with adobe audition at 96khz 32bit, lower to 48khz in adobe and dither to 16bit with izotope ozone and finally i use directly the wav files to DJ with.
- If i buy mp3's I never buy at itunes (way too low quality... but it seam they will in the near future propose higher bitrate songs)
- I buy at www.juno.co.uk my mp3's (but I mostly buy vinyl)
I hope all this is informative and please drop a line if you got remarks.
Flymaster Tron,
Here is what I learned over the years:
* For more information about sound quality and formats get your ass to the
nex website: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php
* If you have songs encoded in 44khz or lower (or if you use the mp3 format),
keep the 'Keylock on'
Remark: The reason for this is obvious.
Facts: 20-22Khz is the highest tone normal ears hear. Facts: In digital format you need twice as much sampling speed as your highest heareable tone thus 44KHz for normal ear.
But: When you lower the pitch of a song (like on a normal turntable), your sound data move to lower wavelengths. Let say you lowered 10%, this means your 22kHz tone will be at 19,8 KHz. But suddenly you have a gap between 19,8 and 22KHz. And you do hear how high-pitched sounds are cut. This is especially noticeable with copper instruments and hihats.
For instance Hihats in nature have wavelengths op to 36kHz, but are trimmed so you only hear the hihats waves lower than 22khz to fit on a cd. Now if you lower the pitch of this trimmed hihats you suddenly will hear the trimmed part of your hihat sound. In our example of -10% pitch this would be you hear the hihat capped at 19,8 kHz (they will sound metallic).
* If you have songs encoded in mp3 use 'keylock on'.
This for a reason related to former remark. Not much people know this, but mp3 encoders firstly cut everything above 19,5kHZ prior to the compression. Why? Because normal adult ears don't hear well above 19kHz. Of course if you amplify your music with decent amplifier and boxes you can hear as adult sounds above 19kHz. Anyway, again here lower the pitch 10% and you will hear your hihats capped at 17,6kHz!!!
There is a workaround and that's the mp3 encoder in Adobe audition. In adobe audition when you 'save as' mp3 you can choose in advanced options at what frequency the codec have to trim.
* Always use VBR.
With VBR parts of a song who needs more attention will be encoded at higher bitrates.
* For Lame don't bother to get higher than 192 VBR and don't use 320 CBR.
Some scientific guy did once a comparison between not coded and encoded song and found out that a lot more information was lost with the 320CBR than with the (192 CBR).
And above 192 VBR is too slow.
* For 48Khz files don't use mp3.
Why? Because mp3 encoders are cutting anyway everything above 19,5 kHz audible or
39 kHz sampling rate.
* For best quality use Nero ACC.
A lot better algorithm than mp3 encoders and does seam to do the trick with 48kHz.
NeroAAc comes with nero burning package. But you also have a free command-line
Nero ACC encoder on the Nero website.
* Last but not least 'The kind of mp3 encoder you use DOES make a difference'
In my point of view use Lame or adobe autition. And by the way, that's one of the reasons why commercial bought mp3's sound sometimes better than you own encoded. Depends of course from who you're buying and how good you are at encoding.
Finally here is how I encode:
- Alll my CD's are encoded with Neo AAC 'default encoder options'
- I record my vinyl with adobe audition at 96khz 32bit, lower to 48khz in adobe and dither to 16bit with izotope ozone and finally i use directly the wav files to DJ with.
- If i buy mp3's I never buy at itunes (way too low quality... but it seam they will in the near future propose higher bitrate songs)
- I buy at www.juno.co.uk my mp3's (but I mostly buy vinyl)
I hope all this is informative and please drop a line if you got remarks.
Flymaster Tron,
发表时间 Thu 12 Apr 07 @ 6:48 pm
i'm sorry to disagree w/ ya but i think 320 is the way to go and i also disagree w/ using vbr .......
also you cannot hear 20 or 22khz ..... your dog can but you can't ......
also you can't hear 20 hz
i used a test disc on my alesis monitor ones ....... at 50 hz the cones just barely moved and i could hear
"flub blub "
at 40 hz the cones hardly moved and i couldn't hear a damn thing ......
deaf ole chuck over 'n out
also you cannot hear 20 or 22khz ..... your dog can but you can't ......
also you can't hear 20 hz
i used a test disc on my alesis monitor ones ....... at 50 hz the cones just barely moved and i could hear
"flub blub "
at 40 hz the cones hardly moved and i couldn't hear a damn thing ......
deaf ole chuck over 'n out
发表时间 Thu 12 Apr 07 @ 8:22 pm
@ CJ and @ A Man ........
as A Man said hd are cheap ....... and keep getting cheaper .........
CJ cramming onto the hd .......bad idea , poor quality slow hd bad idea , multiple formats on hd bad idea
badly fragmented hd not good ....... using windows defragmenter.... ok, not ideal (after market defraggers much better)
as A Man said hd are cheap ....... and keep getting cheaper .........
CJ cramming onto the hd .......bad idea , poor quality slow hd bad idea , multiple formats on hd bad idea
badly fragmented hd not good ....... using windows defragmenter.... ok, not ideal (after market defraggers much better)
发表时间 Thu 12 Apr 07 @ 8:45 pm
IronLunatic
Hi Chuckmorrisyouwimps,
That you can't hear 20hz or 40hz is normal :-)
Way to low rumble.
That you can't hear 20 kHz to 22 khz is possible if you have a slight ear damage.
But you have to know that the maximal audible sound pitch is defined as the possibility to react on a sound of this pitch above a certain volume treshold. And those volume tresholds ain't at 100 dB as your party will.
Check the following website:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/earsens.html
Regards,
That you can't hear 20hz or 40hz is normal :-)
Way to low rumble.
That you can't hear 20 kHz to 22 khz is possible if you have a slight ear damage.
But you have to know that the maximal audible sound pitch is defined as the possibility to react on a sound of this pitch above a certain volume treshold. And those volume tresholds ain't at 100 dB as your party will.
Check the following website:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/earsens.html
Regards,
发表时间 Thu 12 Apr 07 @ 8:57 pm
A Man and His Music
@IronLunatic
As a scientist, I can appreciate your research. However, you have missed a great deal data. We are not playing in a laboratory, to audiophiles. Most of the people we play to, get their music in mp3 formats, at bit rates far below anything we would use. These people use ipods or worst, cell phones to listen to music. Most of them are on some form of mind altering substance, and just want to get lucky. Some of them are whacked, before they even get to your club. If you ask 20 people in your club what vbr was, I'll bet you none of them could tell you. Your data sounds very good, but let's not forget who we are playing to.
As a scientist, I can appreciate your research. However, you have missed a great deal data. We are not playing in a laboratory, to audiophiles. Most of the people we play to, get their music in mp3 formats, at bit rates far below anything we would use. These people use ipods or worst, cell phones to listen to music. Most of them are on some form of mind altering substance, and just want to get lucky. Some of them are whacked, before they even get to your club. If you ask 20 people in your club what vbr was, I'll bet you none of them could tell you. Your data sounds very good, but let's not forget who we are playing to.
发表时间 Thu 12 Apr 07 @ 10:45 pm
IronLunatic
@A Man and His Music
Thanks for the positive reply. You are totally right, we're luckily not playing for some audiophiles. I'ts also partly a personal taste. I for instance am an audiophile. I've never been able to listen to 128 kbps aac's from itunes and i wonder somethimes if half of earth is becoming deaf. As I do hear the differences I go for high quality music.
On the other hand when i'm using vinyl instead of my virtualdj i see people cheering up a lot faster. I can't explain it but the 'vibes' are better. Call it a myth, but that's another reason for me to keep with high quality audio.
Thanks for the positive reply. You are totally right, we're luckily not playing for some audiophiles. I'ts also partly a personal taste. I for instance am an audiophile. I've never been able to listen to 128 kbps aac's from itunes and i wonder somethimes if half of earth is becoming deaf. As I do hear the differences I go for high quality music.
On the other hand when i'm using vinyl instead of my virtualdj i see people cheering up a lot faster. I can't explain it but the 'vibes' are better. Call it a myth, but that's another reason for me to keep with high quality audio.
发表时间 Thu 12 Apr 07 @ 11:12 pm
A Man and His Music
I'm feeling you on the personal taste thing. I am looking for the best sound also, but just realize who I'm playing to. I don't even own an ipod, or any other mp3 player. They are not getting death, but are moving too fast, and going nowhere. How many people do you know that even have a "sound system", in their home? They have ipod docking stations, or are listening to their stock computer speakers. They do not have a clue what good sound is. Remember coming home from the "record store", and listening to the whole "album". They are stealing music off the web, and don't care what the bit rate is. I have "DJs", in my club that use shitty downloads. I come to the booth, and ask, is that a mp3 you're playing? When they say yes, I say I can tell, it sounds like shit.
So, we all have different taste, but should strive for the best quality. We may disagree on the method, but when it's at the higher bit rates, I doubt our clients can tell the difference.
So, we all have different taste, but should strive for the best quality. We may disagree on the method, but when it's at the higher bit rates, I doubt our clients can tell the difference.
发表时间 Fri 13 Apr 07 @ 12:01 am
TopHouse
Human hearing range IS 20 Hz to 20 Khz FACT
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ChrisDAmbrose.shtml
I disagree with the 330 VBR stated above as well, and the argument is flawed! 330 VBR will not give more attention to the areas needing it, it will give less attention to the areas not needing it. Think about it, the maximum is 320, it can't go above 320 so how can it give 'more attention to the areas needing it. Wheras CBR gives a constant 320 across the board.
There are other flaws but I'm too tired to pivk them up at the moment. However, as for the scientific evidence to show vbr is better, it's about equal, there's as much evidence and argument to say cbr is better.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ChrisDAmbrose.shtml
I disagree with the 330 VBR stated above as well, and the argument is flawed! 330 VBR will not give more attention to the areas needing it, it will give less attention to the areas not needing it. Think about it, the maximum is 320, it can't go above 320 so how can it give 'more attention to the areas needing it. Wheras CBR gives a constant 320 across the board.
There are other flaws but I'm too tired to pivk them up at the moment. However, as for the scientific evidence to show vbr is better, it's about equal, there's as much evidence and argument to say cbr is better.
发表时间 Fri 13 Apr 07 @ 2:19 am
IronLunatic
@Tophouse,
Wow,
It seams like I opened the box of pandora with my effort. :-)
Thru, as 320 kbps is the highest bitrate 320kbs VBR would theoretically ideally be 320 CBR.
But then, who does say that Lame is using internal the same encoding scheme for 320kbs CBR than for instance 224 kbps VBR? (I'm not talking about algorithm but internal presets of for instance bandwith filters). I can't remark on this further as this is behind my understanding, so I can only point out about what i read in the past.
I think I should digg up this article again to show you the differences i was talking about.
Prior to sending the article here some other interesting thread on the subject:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227727
Please do comment on other flaws if you have them. I'm not omnipotent and I'm not bearer of the holy thruth. Only by discussing and comparing other peoples opinion one can decide for himself the way he wanna encode.
At the end of the day the best advice might be:
If in doubt one could always do an abx test om some of his songs and then make a personal choice on the encoding scheme he wanna go.
Wow,
It seams like I opened the box of pandora with my effort. :-)
Thru, as 320 kbps is the highest bitrate 320kbs VBR would theoretically ideally be 320 CBR.
But then, who does say that Lame is using internal the same encoding scheme for 320kbs CBR than for instance 224 kbps VBR? (I'm not talking about algorithm but internal presets of for instance bandwith filters). I can't remark on this further as this is behind my understanding, so I can only point out about what i read in the past.
I think I should digg up this article again to show you the differences i was talking about.
Prior to sending the article here some other interesting thread on the subject:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227727
Please do comment on other flaws if you have them. I'm not omnipotent and I'm not bearer of the holy thruth. Only by discussing and comparing other peoples opinion one can decide for himself the way he wanna encode.
At the end of the day the best advice might be:
If in doubt one could always do an abx test om some of his songs and then make a personal choice on the encoding scheme he wanna go.
发表时间 Sat 14 Apr 07 @ 2:38 am