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话题: Virtual DJ 8 BPM issue - Page: 3
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
Don Moir wrote :
...he insisted on using a drill to unscrew screws.


Impact driver or Yankee driver FTW

发表时间 Mon 16 Jan 17 @ 9:17 pm
The automated solution did not work in this case since it was an awkward position. I was watching him just because it was funny but I could have had all the screws out using a screw driver by the time he got one out. I finished a deck walkway awhile back with many deck screws and automated was the way to go. I guess I can also claim now that the walkway is hurricane proof since it was not effected at all by hurricane Mathew and there were trees and fences down all around lol. The pier that was supposed to be hurricane proof has still not been repaired and remains closed.

发表时间 Mon 16 Jan 17 @ 10:17 pm
SerinePRO InfinityMember since 2013
groovindj wrote :
On the subject of variable BPMs (a lot of the music I love is pre drum machine), I do wish VDJ had an option to display a live BPM rather than just the one fixed BPM it worked out from an average of the track.

Luckily I do have external hardware that can show a live BPM (the Red Sound Micro BPM) but it would be far easier to have it on screen.


I'm sure you know this but VDJ does allow you to manually set varying BPMs through a track (can be a bit time consuming to do) which it will then display live while it's playing the track.

Thanks for your comment AMAHM, yes, I am starting to think that the reliability of this feature varies massively between people, perhaps because of musical genre or individual computer clock differences - as you say I would like both features to work but neither has a reliability over 50%


发表时间 Mon 16 Jan 17 @ 11:52 pm
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006

Started with a couple of tracks, but if possible, I would appreciate a list that is checked a little more, as many of these tracks appear to be detected perfectly. (or at least close enough for using the sync button anytime)
Here's the tracks I analyzed so far:

Disclosure - Intro
bpm ok, could be doubled depending on your preference. Very short track to do detection on though. Phase slightly to the left, phrase ok.

Warp Brothers - Phatt Bass
bpm, phrase:ok, phase: incorrect, kick and bass are very separated in this track, making the detection incorrectly prefer the bass start instead of the kick

Eliminate - Standing in the rain
bpm ok, phase ok, phrase shifted one beat (so still ok with sync as long as you start on the correct downbeat)

Marcel Woods - Advanced
phase, phrase, bpm: ok

Safri Duo - Played A Live
phase, phrase, bpm: ok

So far phatt bass is the only one that couldn't be mixed using the sync button without manual adjustment.

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 7:46 am

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 2:17 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
UB40 170+, nah,

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 2:27 pm
LOL. Yeah... Reggae in 170+ BPM is just insane...
It's all about chill out on a beach and drop tempo down to... hmmm 30 beats per minute perhaps? :P

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 2:32 pm
Listen to it... To my ears and matching with a metronome I think maybe better in time with 173 but that is subjective I know. I think I am picking up the horns and not just the bass for this song as part of the beat but it is not steady thru out. That is not really the point of the post though.

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 2:41 pm
Serine wrote :
VDJ does allow you to manually set varying BPMs through a track (can be a bit time consuming to do) which it will then display live while it's playing the track.


Yes I do know that. As you say, it's very time consuming (I've only ever tried it on one track just to see how it works) and the BPM, although it changes, isn't really "live" - it's just displaying what it's been set to on the CBG.

I do wish VDJ was smart enough to beat grid variable tracks by itself, but if it has trouble with straight BPMs then I think the light at the end of the tunnel is a very long way off!


发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 7:34 pm
SerinePRO InfinityMember since 2013
@Adion:

My apologies as a lot of the tracks in that list were changing post analysis. They were analysed in an earlier build of V8 I think (I didn't have V7 installed on PC and I didn't migrate settings so it wasn't that). The following tracks are specific examples which are post-re-analysis where not mentioned.

Note that almost all of those tracks are out by the 3-15 thousandths that puts a 7 minute track audibly off by the end of the track. I'm guessing you don't want to fix this issue? I would very much like to see a solution but for now it is a lower priority. Would you accept a separate thread about it when you are happy with the resolution to unsyncability?

Intro by Disclosure:

Initially a little out, but still detecting silence as the start of the beat.

I fiddled, then pressed "analyze BPM" to re-set to default and got this:

Clearly off by three beats. Not sure what is happening here - not the first time this has happened.

Skeng ft. Christie Gwyer by Deep Red (Download)

Phrase out by one beat. Phase detection is to the left, but the BPM 11 thousandths off means it corrects by the end of the track. This level of error is audible during automix if you're listening for it. The phrase being out by one beat makes automix sound appalling.

Quote :
Eliminate - Standing in the rain
bpm ok, phase ok, phrase shifted one beat

I disagree. BPM is ok (actually 1/1000th out - frustrating for OCD but not a problem). Phase detects very distinguishably to the right for me. But phrase... absolutely fine - it's detecting the first downbeat??

Aside - "(so still ok with sync as long as you start on the correct downbeat)" - isn't this the exact problem we are trying to solve???
Again, real DJ's don't use sync but nobody who wants this feature to be fixed would be asking for it to be fixed if they were happy to do it by ear 100% of the time. Is VDJ a piece of software you only want real DJs to buy or do you want it to be accessible to everyone?


Warp Brothers - Phatt Bass
This was fine for me when I loaded it into the deck, not sure when I analysed it. BPM basically right on point with phrase and phase both great. I re-analyzed it and it detected the "first beat" being 2 beats before the song started but still very accurate and perfect for automix.



Everything Matters by AK9
Phase, phrase both audibly wrong. BPM incorrect by 0.011 (also it's 70 not 140 but I don't mind that because this can be fixed in bulk. Please ignore it for this discussion.)

Heffay - At Night
Phase ok, phrase out.




Sorry for just giving you a huge load of files before, it's obviously very easy for me to skip through my library but not for you. I'll let you digest these ones, I can dig up examples of each separate problem all day long so let me know what you want to focus on and I'll find tracks which exemplify that for me. It's quite time consuming for me too so I think something we need to establish is whether our BPM analyzers are actually analyzing the same. From the examples above it sounds like that's a no.

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 10:31 pm
"Jane, stop this crazy thing". You guys are going to make me slit my wrist. The UB40 song is 86.15 to 86.23 BPM (I have 2 versions, one is a remix). The first beat is where he starts to sing. Just because you don't hear a beat, does not mean it's not there. I mix this track from the beginning of where he first starts to sing, with any track that is in the range. Maybe this just comes natural to me, because I do not see the issue here.

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 11:35 pm
SerinePRO InfinityMember since 2013
For the record, I agree that the UB40 track is half time compared to drum & bass (so, normal for reggae). You could double the BPM and it would "work" because like many tracks of this influence there are hihats/cymbal/brush strikes in between beats but these aren't used to count BPM - only the kick and snare hits are.

Hope I've got the terminology right. In any case, half/double BPM really isn't the issue here, is easily fixed as a batch so perhaps it would be better to focus on tracks with incorrect phase, phrase or tempo detection :)

发表时间 Tue 17 Jan 17 @ 11:59 pm
AMAHM, wouldn't the first beat determine where the mix should start when in automix?

When the UB40 song is in automix, it seems to ignore the VDJ calculated first beat position and do the right thing so confused. To me I would not start dancing until what I think the first real beat is and not when the guy is initially singing. Maybe you could shed some light on this for me.

I have said I posted here to learn more about it and I know it is second nature to many of you guys so I respect what you say about this. From a calculations point of view, the ~86 BPM is like right on the threshold of being 86 or 172 in a couple of beat detection schemes I am using. It depends mostly what your range is in this case. I suspect that if VDJ had an upper range of about 180, it may indeed think it is 172 BPM. It is probably being limited by the VDJ upper limit of 160. I knew this was nuts when first starting to look at it and it sort of remained in the back of my mind when you all said mix by ear, and yeah, not that I could do it but that has to be right in the general case. I guess you all prepare your music just right when you are going to automix or start with music that is not going to be a problem.

Here is a link that shows the UB40 song at ~172 BPM.

https://www.audiokeychain.com/track/Qus/ub40-i-cant-help-falling-in-love-with-you

but you can fine many from about 80 to 90... So some think it should be accurate to the thousands? You are very lucky to get to a close whole number I think unless created with a constant tempo in the first place from start to finish.

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 1:36 pm
BTW: VirtualDj does not have an upper limit on 160 BPM. I have songs that are scanned as 240 BPM for instance.
It's just that for BPM greater than a given limit the confidence level must be very high.

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 1:39 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
240BPM is the limit though

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 1:45 pm
Yeah I am guessing at that and used metronome files to determine the algorithm is using an approximate range of 85 to 160 but still somewhat of a guess. My metronome files below 85 get doubled and above 160 get halved but I did not test ranges above 180 or below about 70. VDJ can still report values below 85 and above 160 but I think it comes from halving or doubling? I will need to look at some more extreme cases.

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 1:52 pm
Actually the highest auto-calculated BPM on my library is 280. And it happens to be correct! (One of a very few tracks of mine that go to such high BPM)

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 1:54 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
Really? The bpm editor won't accept a typed bpm above 240,
[I never had you down as an extratoner]

I've only a few speediest of speedcore tracks above this, so I just set_bpm 200%
[prop to whomever solved the v7 rounding issue, I use set_bpm a lot to get more out of beat aware fx]

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 2:16 pm
I tried guns n roses paradise city which is supposed to be ~200 BPM. VDJ came up with 95.96. 3 other programs came up with ~101, ~102, ~103. All of them are being halved I believe or other pseudo science to get those numbers.

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 2:16 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
I think that the guys pointing out the grid being off by a few 1/1000ths are forgetting that a beat can have swing applied to it.

发表时间 Wed 18 Jan 17 @ 2:20 pm
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