I am a pro DJ who plays in clubs where I require top performance from my equipment.
Virtual Vinyl works well with the timecode CD's and good cd players - but I recently needed to do a gig where I needed my own equipment other than speakers. So, I went to check out MIDI controllers to compare their performance, since I didn't have CD players / turntables of my own to take with me to the gig.
I started with the Numark Total Control. I was disappointed to find that it is a toy that can hack it for "fun" DJing applications. The jog dials are way too small to effectively use when you need to mix quickly and exactly. The scratch function is dodgy - no touch sensitivity and a lag once you try scratch and drop a track in. But, the looping and effects buttons are quite useful, as is the mixer and gain control (particularly if you have no external mixer).
The Behringer BCD2000 was on display and that had equally small dials that seemed like they would last about a year max. In my experience, Behringer equipment has always been amongst the worst in terms of reliability across the board. The sales staff wrote it off compared to the Numark (both were similar prices), as they did with the original Hercules controller (not the RMX model).
On to the Vestax VCI-100. Much better build quality, but the sound guys at West End DJ (London) told me that the device has the exact same 'lagl' issue when scratching a track and dropping it in (once you release from scratching, the track doesn't play instantly, it hovers for a second and then suddenly realises it has to start playing). This 'lag' is not due to a setting that can be adjusted like the dial on a Pioneer CDJ-1000 for example. Again the small, loose jog dials did not warrant the hefty price tag.
The M Audio Torq Xponent had a way, way superior feel to it. The dials were the right size, and you could feel that they were heavy and robust. I didn't demo this one but the difference was obvious. I would love to know about the scratch functions though.
In my opinion, not one of these devices is worth it if you already have a soundcard and timecode setup, and access to mixers. Unless they have built in soundcards, there is not too much new to this equipment type in terms of technology. Therefore, since the timecodes work well, these devices should be better.
If you are starting as a DJ then it's a different matter and I can see the benefit. Also, if you only play house and don't need to scratch - no problem (go for the M Audio).
So - for my gig I will most likely struggle along purely off my laptop without a MIDI controller. I will rather wait until something decent comes along that fits my price, given that I already own a soundcard and the software.
Virtual Vinyl works well with the timecode CD's and good cd players - but I recently needed to do a gig where I needed my own equipment other than speakers. So, I went to check out MIDI controllers to compare their performance, since I didn't have CD players / turntables of my own to take with me to the gig.
I started with the Numark Total Control. I was disappointed to find that it is a toy that can hack it for "fun" DJing applications. The jog dials are way too small to effectively use when you need to mix quickly and exactly. The scratch function is dodgy - no touch sensitivity and a lag once you try scratch and drop a track in. But, the looping and effects buttons are quite useful, as is the mixer and gain control (particularly if you have no external mixer).
The Behringer BCD2000 was on display and that had equally small dials that seemed like they would last about a year max. In my experience, Behringer equipment has always been amongst the worst in terms of reliability across the board. The sales staff wrote it off compared to the Numark (both were similar prices), as they did with the original Hercules controller (not the RMX model).
On to the Vestax VCI-100. Much better build quality, but the sound guys at West End DJ (London) told me that the device has the exact same 'lagl' issue when scratching a track and dropping it in (once you release from scratching, the track doesn't play instantly, it hovers for a second and then suddenly realises it has to start playing). This 'lag' is not due to a setting that can be adjusted like the dial on a Pioneer CDJ-1000 for example. Again the small, loose jog dials did not warrant the hefty price tag.
The M Audio Torq Xponent had a way, way superior feel to it. The dials were the right size, and you could feel that they were heavy and robust. I didn't demo this one but the difference was obvious. I would love to know about the scratch functions though.
In my opinion, not one of these devices is worth it if you already have a soundcard and timecode setup, and access to mixers. Unless they have built in soundcards, there is not too much new to this equipment type in terms of technology. Therefore, since the timecodes work well, these devices should be better.
If you are starting as a DJ then it's a different matter and I can see the benefit. Also, if you only play house and don't need to scratch - no problem (go for the M Audio).
So - for my gig I will most likely struggle along purely off my laptop without a MIDI controller. I will rather wait until something decent comes along that fits my price, given that I already own a soundcard and the software.
发表时间 Wed 16 Apr 08 @ 3:15 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Thanks for that feedback, and you're right when it comes to hardcore scratching.
A midi/hid controller that can come close to real DMC scratch performance is possibly the new Vestax VCI-300, that have taken just that into account.
Also, the Pioneer CDJ400 (hybrid CD player and software controller) seems to perform well.
Timecode though,will always be as good as the "controller" its used on, that be a good turntable or CDJ 1000 ... for example...
So most die hard scratchers, still choose timecode and real turntable as their solution ;)
A midi/hid controller that can come close to real DMC scratch performance is possibly the new Vestax VCI-300, that have taken just that into account.
Also, the Pioneer CDJ400 (hybrid CD player and software controller) seems to perform well.
Timecode though,will always be as good as the "controller" its used on, that be a good turntable or CDJ 1000 ... for example...
So most die hard scratchers, still choose timecode and real turntable as their solution ;)
发表时间 Wed 16 Apr 08 @ 1:08 pm
Bren F
Pro Controllers aren't generally designed to put turntables out of business, they are more about providing a hands on way of controlling the software’s more advanced features.
Ideally a scratch DJ would use turntables for the basics, coupled with a pro controller so more advantages of the software are put to hand, the use of both are subject to the way you work.
The XP10s have a good wheel, but the buttons and pitch slider are a failure in my opinion, not professional at all, if they put that same product together in a more pro edition (better/stronger materials, and lights) then it would be a winner of a scratch controller.
Personally I use the VCI-100 and I find the jogwheels totally solid and very accurate for mixing, youtube is testament that decent basic scratching is possible, but it's not ideal.
Ideally a scratch DJ would use turntables for the basics, coupled with a pro controller so more advantages of the software are put to hand, the use of both are subject to the way you work.
The XP10s have a good wheel, but the buttons and pitch slider are a failure in my opinion, not professional at all, if they put that same product together in a more pro edition (better/stronger materials, and lights) then it would be a winner of a scratch controller.
Personally I use the VCI-100 and I find the jogwheels totally solid and very accurate for mixing, youtube is testament that decent basic scratching is possible, but it's not ideal.
发表时间 Wed 16 Apr 08 @ 1:41 pm
RicardoM
Dont forget the Denon´s combo: HC-4500 midi controller with X500 mixer!!! Thats a real pro gear!. Im a user of pro dj gear, and now when I want to turn 100% digital, I found (after lots of reading) and own the denon gear is what I was looking for. Heres a couple of Pics of my booth:
发表时间 Wed 16 Apr 08 @ 2:13 pm
Caliente123
I hope you got paid very good to bring all that equipment. Every gig i have, i only bring one setup.
发表时间 Wed 16 Apr 08 @ 6:55 pm
fatkatzdj
Looks to me that the main system is a rollaway with a back up. What, the avaerage set up time is about 20 min I'm guessing. Besides, perception is a key in mobile gigging. The payee likes to know that their getting thier moneys worth and if you show up with a laptop and 2 power speakers. I personally would be upset and " you " the DJ would not look like a professional.
Remember, the average person doesn't understand that the age of the computer can do everything now but it doesn't equate to the amount of money that you asked for. Mobile giging is about experience and not the equipement. But we still have to have an image of showmanship with the equipment.
I bring a SKB with my laptop and PC and a BOSE 1 piece. Average set up time from car to music playing is 10 min but the look of my set up makes me look like I have my shit together for a great show and nothing is going to stop this night from happening. All I do is turn on all the lights for show.
IMAGE people!
Remember, the average person doesn't understand that the age of the computer can do everything now but it doesn't equate to the amount of money that you asked for. Mobile giging is about experience and not the equipement. But we still have to have an image of showmanship with the equipment.
I bring a SKB with my laptop and PC and a BOSE 1 piece. Average set up time from car to music playing is 10 min but the look of my set up makes me look like I have my shit together for a great show and nothing is going to stop this night from happening. All I do is turn on all the lights for show.
IMAGE people!
发表时间 Thu 17 Apr 08 @ 10:45 am
RicardoM
Caliente123 wrote :
I hope you got paid very good to bring all that equipment. Every gig i have, i only bring one setup.
The pay for DJ services here in north-Mexico really sux. People only want really loud systems (without care of quality). Most of mobiles here have crap gear, horrible instalations (lots of wire of all colours at the floor), gear really dirt, etc. I personally dont like that. 70% of mobiles here charges from 120 to 150 dlls 5 hour gig with \"light system\" (ugly shows), oily fog that smells. And most of them have computers with illegal copies of VDJ/Atomix. I charge $600 for DJ, light system and video mixing.
In the picture you see 2 systems. That was my very first time with VDJ/computer gig. The other sys I used as backup if something failed... It didnt happend so it was not used. Next gig with VDJ/videos, will not bring that system.
fatkatzdj wrote :
What, the avaerage set up time is about 20 min I\'m guessing.
Youre right!!!! 20 mins if it is only audio. All it is already connected in the cases, just plug the AC and the signal to the amps rack and walla!.
When aksed for lights, then it is an extra 45 mins, and most of the time its hiding the cables. When asked for video, just another 20 mins (10 for the da-lite assamble and another 10 for the rest of the gear)
fatkatzdj wrote :
Besides, perception is a key in mobile gigging. The payee likes to know that their getting thier moneys worth and if you show up with a laptop and 2 power speakers. I personally would be upset and \" you \" the DJ would not look like a professional.
Besides, perception is a key in mobile gigging. The payee likes to know that their getting thier moneys worth and if you show up with a laptop and 2 power speakers. I personally would be upset and \" you \" the DJ would not look like a professional.
100% agree here too. As I said before, most of mobiles here with \"big systems\" do a \"wall of speakers\" (and most of that speakers are blown or disconnected) but the crowd or the payee dont know that, and they say \"wow, thats a big system\". My main sound system consist in:
4 subs cabs (2x18\" eachs) with DAS spekarers
4 cabs for mid/high (with 15\" DAS speaker and 4\"K-10 DAD driver)
powered with Crest Audio:
CA-12 (subs)
CA-9 (mids)
CA-6 (high)
It is not too big in volume, but sounds really clear, crisp, deep and loud.
A time ago, I was at a wedding where was playing a band, when the band takes a break, It was my turn to play. All the band was amazed with the sound and punch of my sys with 1speaker(with a sub) per side vs their system with 8 Vegas SL-36B and 6 mids highs all with QSC RMX amps.
fatkatzdj wrote :
Remember, the average person doesn\'t understand that the age of the computer can do everything now but it doesn\'t equate to the amount of money that you asked for. Mobile giging is about experience and not the equipement.
Remember, the average person doesn\'t understand that the age of the computer can do everything now but it doesn\'t equate to the amount of money that you asked for. Mobile giging is about experience and not the equipement.
Cant be more ageed. After that gig (at the pics) Im thinking about change the CD\'s and CD players for VDJ and a controller. I already have my CDs ripped.
fatkatzdj wrote :
I bring a SKB with my laptop and PC and a BOSE 1 piece. Average set up time from car to music playing is 10 min but the look of my set up makes me look like I have my shit together for a great show and nothing is going to stop this night from happening. All I do is turn on all the lights for show.
I bring a SKB with my laptop and PC and a BOSE 1 piece. Average set up time from car to music playing is 10 min but the look of my set up makes me look like I have my shit together for a great show and nothing is going to stop this night from happening. All I do is turn on all the lights for show.
I envy you! lol!!! when I grow up (or when get too old to lift the amps rack), I wanna be like you.
发表时间 Thu 17 Apr 08 @ 2:17 pm
Caliente123
That is a crazy price. 120-150 for 5 hours. You cant make money charging that low. 600 bucks is a better price to charge. For 600 dollars, i will bring 2 speakers and 1 subwoofer. Ill just have one setup and 1 simple light. 5 hours of music. I only bring alot of stuff when i get paid really good. I love to dj but after having so many years of moblie dj ying. You should get what you deserve. I spent thousands of dollars on equipment. When something sbreaks, i have to pay out of my pocket to get it fixed. Everything thing i own is light. I have light amps, light speakers etc. Ill spend more money on the lighter equipment because at the end of the party, I wont be worn out from lifting heavy equipment. I have 3 qsc plx amps @ 21 pounds each. Carvin speakers handling 475 rms in 8 ohms, 31 pounds each one. The heaviest is the 2 cdjs 1000mk3 and the mixer inside a marathon case with built in laptop holder.
发表时间 Sat 19 Apr 08 @ 4:17 am
Charlie Wilson
dj_funkbomb, Just out of interest what software do you use?
发表时间 Sat 19 Apr 08 @ 4:19 am
Paulie_C
I would have never attempted scratching with the total control. I use it and love it! I use a single CD deck ( pioneer 800mk2) and the total control. I also have a x-session pro and trigger finger to have more control.
I mix House music for 4.5 hours twice per week and have been using the total control for 7 months straight. I was skeptical as well but it continues to perform perfect. There is no way to count but 1 million or so crabs later it still works. It is more than I can say for a lot of regular mixers on the market.
I recommend it for certain. Very light..yes...very delicate feeling..yes..great working tool for less than $200 YEP! I have two more in case they stop making them. I may buy another one soon too.
I mix House music for 4.5 hours twice per week and have been using the total control for 7 months straight. I was skeptical as well but it continues to perform perfect. There is no way to count but 1 million or so crabs later it still works. It is more than I can say for a lot of regular mixers on the market.
I recommend it for certain. Very light..yes...very delicate feeling..yes..great working tool for less than $200 YEP! I have two more in case they stop making them. I may buy another one soon too.
发表时间 Sat 19 Apr 08 @ 1:53 pm
l_rids
Get the Nuo4 :)
The midi interface on it is all you need for the extra functions that a midi controller has besides the scratch wheel. Then use either cdj or technics.
The midi interface on it is all you need for the extra functions that a midi controller has besides the scratch wheel. Then use either cdj or technics.
发表时间 Tue 22 Apr 08 @ 12:57 am
Paz75
For several months I've been using an Allen&Heath Xone:3D with an RME Multiface II soundcard. I have to say it's a mint setup and I have absolutely no problems whatsoever. I can run any configuration of timecode (or none at all) and have full control over all aspects of VDJ software necessary.
I find when I play out in clubs which dont have the Xone:3D I have a small crutch in that the controls are no longer so close to my finger tips and that my effect abilities are less (in concerns of fast movement).
If you're a pro and willing to spend the money, I urge you to check it out.
On a very cheap note, before I had a xone:3d I had bought a portable nmeric keypad which I assigned to a limited number of controls and simply tape it to the side of the mixer. This works well also.
For pro djs, its about the setup. distance between your most used buttons and the crossfader is important and minimizing the distance of moving your eyes to effect certain controls. When that distance is far, it takes time and gives room for mistake. With my Xone:3D, everything is within a few cm of space and I never have to look far. I rarely touch the actual laptop and everything is on the decks and mixer. Ive played a few parties where the laptop couldnt be anywhere close to me because of space and I didnt mind a bit.
I find when I play out in clubs which dont have the Xone:3D I have a small crutch in that the controls are no longer so close to my finger tips and that my effect abilities are less (in concerns of fast movement).
If you're a pro and willing to spend the money, I urge you to check it out.
On a very cheap note, before I had a xone:3d I had bought a portable nmeric keypad which I assigned to a limited number of controls and simply tape it to the side of the mixer. This works well also.
For pro djs, its about the setup. distance between your most used buttons and the crossfader is important and minimizing the distance of moving your eyes to effect certain controls. When that distance is far, it takes time and gives room for mistake. With my Xone:3D, everything is within a few cm of space and I never have to look far. I rarely touch the actual laptop and everything is on the decks and mixer. Ive played a few parties where the laptop couldnt be anywhere close to me because of space and I didnt mind a bit.
发表时间 Mon 05 May 08 @ 9:50 pm