sjursjur
For a long time a was hesitating about the u46dj, because some had reported the output of the RIAA preamp to be to loud. Eventually though I figured I'd give it a try. I'm playing 50/50 VDJ/ regular vinyl, and was tired of lugging around, and hooking up y-splitters and my custom-built switchbox (to cut the signal going into the soundcard) to clubs. I wanted an easier solution, and I wanted an extra stereo-output for the sampler. And so I figured the u46dj couldn't be that bad, since it's reccomended here on the boards.
Alas... it is in fact TO LOUD for my Ortofon Concordes. Basically the waveforms in the TCV setup barely fits inside the box, but if I cue or scratch they peak above... This is so incredibly lame!
Anyway, I'm back to my good old y-splitters and magic box, running the u46dj without the RIAA preamps. Oh well, at least I got some extra outputs for the sampler...
Bottom line: Forget about using the bypass mode with the u46dj's RIAA's. With TCCD and TCV through software preamp though it works pretty well.
Oh, and here are some question for the dev team/support staff, whatever:
Is this possilbe to fix in the software (v4.0), or is the analogue signal from the TT's just to loud to avoid peaking? Also, is the new TCV's lower output? (I hear they have worse tracking(!?), so I guess they have.).
Alas... it is in fact TO LOUD for my Ortofon Concordes. Basically the waveforms in the TCV setup barely fits inside the box, but if I cue or scratch they peak above... This is so incredibly lame!
Anyway, I'm back to my good old y-splitters and magic box, running the u46dj without the RIAA preamps. Oh well, at least I got some extra outputs for the sampler...
Bottom line: Forget about using the bypass mode with the u46dj's RIAA's. With TCCD and TCV through software preamp though it works pretty well.
Oh, and here are some question for the dev team/support staff, whatever:
Is this possilbe to fix in the software (v4.0), or is the analogue signal from the TT's just to loud to avoid peaking? Also, is the new TCV's lower output? (I hear they have worse tracking(!?), so I guess they have.).
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 1:00 am
SecretSoul
sjursjur wrote :
Alas... it is in fact TO LOUD for my Ortofon Concordes. Basically the waveforms in the TCV setup barely fits inside the box, but if I cue or scratch they peak above... This is so incredibly lame!
Can't say I've had any problems. I've been recording some vinyl with my U46 this week. Have you turned off/unchekced the software RIAA preamps? Because the U46 has its own built in preamp and you need to uncheck the box in Virtual DJ or Vinyl Rip to avoid distortion.
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 4:50 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
exactly:) Turn off software preamp, as U46dj has hardware preamp....
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 1:50 pm
sjursjur
Thanks for the input guys, but maybe I wasn't all to clear in my previous post:
Of course I didn't use both software and hardware (u46dj's) preamp. If I did that the signal would not only blast out of proportion, but would also be messed up sonically (very low quality).
The trouble is that I can't use the hardware preamps, because then the signal will become too loud if I scratch or cue (or if i get feedback from the PA). The reason is that my TT cartridges give out a signal that is stronger than say the standard Stanton 500AL's.
This is pretty disapointing, concidering the hardware preamps was the main reason I got the u46dj. And the reason I wanted the hardware preamps was to get good bypass for playing regular vinyl.
My question to the dev team is if there is any way to have VDJ put an negative gain on the incoming TCV signal, to make for more headroom for the waveforms to avoid peaking, or will the signal become corrupted anyway (even if it is posible to make it fit inside the "box")?
Of course I didn't use both software and hardware (u46dj's) preamp. If I did that the signal would not only blast out of proportion, but would also be messed up sonically (very low quality).
The trouble is that I can't use the hardware preamps, because then the signal will become too loud if I scratch or cue (or if i get feedback from the PA). The reason is that my TT cartridges give out a signal that is stronger than say the standard Stanton 500AL's.
This is pretty disapointing, concidering the hardware preamps was the main reason I got the u46dj. And the reason I wanted the hardware preamps was to get good bypass for playing regular vinyl.
My question to the dev team is if there is any way to have VDJ put an negative gain on the incoming TCV signal, to make for more headroom for the waveforms to avoid peaking, or will the signal become corrupted anyway (even if it is posible to make it fit inside the "box")?
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 3:47 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
ah..
See what you mean.. the cartridge gives too loud signal...
Did you also lower the silence slider (as well as putting the gain to zero in software).
This problem happens to TCCD's too, if the signal is too loud there are problems.
I solved it by lowering the input to the PC, by adjusting the level slider in the soundcard control setting.
Does the U46dj have a volume slider for the line in, to where you can lower the signal in?
That should work...
See what you mean.. the cartridge gives too loud signal...
Did you also lower the silence slider (as well as putting the gain to zero in software).
This problem happens to TCCD's too, if the signal is too loud there are problems.
I solved it by lowering the input to the PC, by adjusting the level slider in the soundcard control setting.
Does the U46dj have a volume slider for the line in, to where you can lower the signal in?
That should work...
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 3:55 pm
blackgold9
Thats actually my problem with the u46dj. With the current drivers if the signal is too loud, there's non way I've found to turn it down.
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 4:51 pm
sjursjur
I lowered the silence, and of course set the gain to zero. In the u46dj controlpanel, you can only gain UP. In other words the default setting for the preamped (RIAA) channels is set to zero...
I guess I'm not really asking for a solution to this problem, rather I'm merely stating my frustration and giving a warning to other people who might want to upgrade to the u46dj for this reason (better bypass)...
As far as I know, I only have three options:
1 Sticking with software preamp and y-splitters (and a signal-cutting device)
2 Replacing my cartidges for lower output ones (nevvah!!! I love my Ortofons...)
3 Soldering resistors to either the TT RCA-cables, or to some extension-cord RCA cables (that I can bring to the club)...
D'oh!
I wish VDJ would adopt Numarks soundcard-interface, and plaster the VDJ logo on it...
I guess I'm not really asking for a solution to this problem, rather I'm merely stating my frustration and giving a warning to other people who might want to upgrade to the u46dj for this reason (better bypass)...
As far as I know, I only have three options:
1 Sticking with software preamp and y-splitters (and a signal-cutting device)
2 Replacing my cartidges for lower output ones (nevvah!!! I love my Ortofons...)
3 Soldering resistors to either the TT RCA-cables, or to some extension-cord RCA cables (that I can bring to the club)...
D'oh!
I wish VDJ would adopt Numarks soundcard-interface, and plaster the VDJ logo on it...
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 4:58 pm
SecretSoul
sjursjur wrote :
I wish VDJ would adopt Numarks soundcard-interface, and plaster the VDJ logo on it...
On the contrary, that's one of the main selling points of Virtual DJ.
What carts are you using? I have the Ortofon Nightclub S Concordes. Maybe, rather than blaming the soundcard, you should consider getting new carts.
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 8:41 pm
sjursjur
As I stated in the above post. Replacing the cartridges is one option (but not a good one). This has previously been reported to be a problem (also with other DJ software), so I feel I'm right to blame the soundcard...
You (secretsoul) don't seem to have TCV's so I assume you have not even tested this. I have the DJ S ortofons, and as I said they produce a signal that WITH TCV's barely avoid peaking. If I scratch or cue the volume is higher (due to the increased vibrating power transferred from the faster moving vinyls) the volume peaks. If I don't touch the records the signal is OK. It's not the same as TCCD, where volume of the signal stays the same even if you cue.
As for the soundcard remark, it was more like wishful thinking from my side. But then again VDJ sold their own XP-10s (with logo and different frimware), so I don't see how a propetary VDJ soundcard would take away from VDJ's selling points, as long as you could still use other soundcards (unlike SSL, FS etc).
You (secretsoul) don't seem to have TCV's so I assume you have not even tested this. I have the DJ S ortofons, and as I said they produce a signal that WITH TCV's barely avoid peaking. If I scratch or cue the volume is higher (due to the increased vibrating power transferred from the faster moving vinyls) the volume peaks. If I don't touch the records the signal is OK. It's not the same as TCCD, where volume of the signal stays the same even if you cue.
As for the soundcard remark, it was more like wishful thinking from my side. But then again VDJ sold their own XP-10s (with logo and different frimware), so I don't see how a propetary VDJ soundcard would take away from VDJ's selling points, as long as you could still use other soundcards (unlike SSL, FS etc).
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 8:58 pm
apopsisdj
@sjursjur, i understand very well what you mean...
I don't have a u46dj but know what happens to the timecode signal when you scratch or cue and how it is distorted.
The possible -future- fixes (to lower the tc gain) is either from Vdj TC setup or u46 updated drivers/mixer.
I don't have a u46dj but know what happens to the timecode signal when you scratch or cue and how it is distorted.
The possible -future- fixes (to lower the tc gain) is either from Vdj TC setup or u46 updated drivers/mixer.
发表时间 Sat 12 Aug 06 @ 11:47 pm
sjursjur
yeah, well.... As I said, I didn't really expect some miracle solution to this issue... Not yet anyway. It was ment more like a warning, if other people wanted to upgrade from for instance the Maya 44 usb (like myself) in hope to get a good bypass signal... But:
Other than this issue, the u46dj is a very good soundcard for it's price. The signal is much better (and stronger) than the maya, and for TC users it has an extra stereo output for the sampler, wich is very cool. I would definetely reccomend it for TCCD users, and TCV users can still get very good results (like myself) with the aid of some Y-splitters and a RCA switches of some sort (if they plan on spinning regular vinyl as well as VDJ TCV.
And just as a sidenote: Why don't I just rip all my vinyls to mp3's? Well, because I don't bother to... But also because when I play in the clubs I often play alongside other DJ's that play Vinyl.. Like tonight for instance I was spinning with Bent (uk), and I sort of couldn't just tell them to rip their vinyls as well, now could I?
Other than this issue, the u46dj is a very good soundcard for it's price. The signal is much better (and stronger) than the maya, and for TC users it has an extra stereo output for the sampler, wich is very cool. I would definetely reccomend it for TCCD users, and TCV users can still get very good results (like myself) with the aid of some Y-splitters and a RCA switches of some sort (if they plan on spinning regular vinyl as well as VDJ TCV.
And just as a sidenote: Why don't I just rip all my vinyls to mp3's? Well, because I don't bother to... But also because when I play in the clubs I often play alongside other DJ's that play Vinyl.. Like tonight for instance I was spinning with Bent (uk), and I sort of couldn't just tell them to rip their vinyls as well, now could I?
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 5:07 am
apopsisdj
sjursjur wrote :
Other than this issue, the u46dj is a very good soundcard for it's price. The signal is much better (and stronger) than the maya
Other than this issue, the u46dj is a very good soundcard for it's price. The signal is much better (and stronger) than the maya
That's something i wanted to hear, i will upgrade from the maya too.
I have pops/clicks with fast/hard scratches (TCV), and i thought it was the software, but finally after testing with other cards it is the maya...
Can you check this for me as you have both ? and how low you can set the latency in u46 without problems ?
btw, spinning with Bent, cool...
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 11:55 am
SecretSoul
sjursjur wrote :
You (secretsoul) don't seem to have TCV's so I assume you have not even tested this.
I have, i just forgot to add them in my profile ;)
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 4:37 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
As Secretsoul said, the easy solution would be using cartridge that doesn't play too loud... ;)
But, just as an experiment... As the signal is too loud.
What happens if you use LINE IN, and use hardware gain. Instead of phono in (where the signal is too loud)
Might be worth a shot, since the U46dj can not turn level down (from zero gain) to compensate for too loud signal
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 6:20 pm
sjursjur
@apopsis: I can set the latency to 128 wich is about 3ms (128/441100=0,0029sec). What is pretty cool with the driver (v1.0.16) is that it has a red "warnig light" that flashes if there is ASIO overload. You can keep this window on top of VDJ to monitor. With the latency set to 80 this gizmo lights up like crazy, and the sound is all corrupted. At 128 (second lowest latency setting) however, it shows no sign of overload, and that's with both decks running (scrathing and all), and 12 samples running - no hickups at all. My laptop is fitted with a AMD64 3200, and 768MB RAM, so it's pretty average hardware.
And yes, I've noticed that the crackles that I got with the maya when scratching is not to be heard on the u46dj. I'm actually very happy with the u46dj, appart for the initial disapointment of the RIAA output beeing to high for TCV use (it is however fine for ripping regular vinyl).
Finally, a word of advice if you go for the u46dj:
The driver that comes with the CD (1.0.14) will not work with VDJ (no big surprise, really), but strangely enough, the only driver you will find on ESI's web pages is the same driver (v 1.0.14). I actually wound up finding the 1.0.16 driver (that works) in ESI's forums... not on their page for driver downloads. Also I managed to navigate my way around ESI's Korean site and there found both 1.0.16 AND 1.0.18 (no sign of 1.0.14) drivers... wich both work well (the drivers are in english, even though the website is in Korean).
And yes, I've noticed that the crackles that I got with the maya when scratching is not to be heard on the u46dj. I'm actually very happy with the u46dj, appart for the initial disapointment of the RIAA output beeing to high for TCV use (it is however fine for ripping regular vinyl).
Finally, a word of advice if you go for the u46dj:
The driver that comes with the CD (1.0.14) will not work with VDJ (no big surprise, really), but strangely enough, the only driver you will find on ESI's web pages is the same driver (v 1.0.14). I actually wound up finding the 1.0.16 driver (that works) in ESI's forums... not on their page for driver downloads. Also I managed to navigate my way around ESI's Korean site and there found both 1.0.16 AND 1.0.18 (no sign of 1.0.14) drivers... wich both work well (the drivers are in english, even though the website is in Korean).
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 6:30 pm
sjursjur
@Norway: Easy on the caffein Rune! Hehe! If you read my post a little more slowly, you'll see that this is exactly what I have done, and that it is working very well. In danger of repeating myself to death: The problem is that as long as I can't use the u46dj's preamps for TCV, I can't use it efficently with bypass for regualr vinyl.... That's all.
BTW I assume you meant software gain, not hardware... am i right?
BTW I assume you meant software gain, not hardware... am i right?
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 6:39 pm
sjursjur
And since I'm on a roll here, here's some more insight: My cartridges give out a 6mV signal. This is actually pretty average (And the same as secretsouls Nightclub S ones). The ortofon digiscratch give out 8mV and the Ortofon Qbert ones a whopping 11mV, so the cartridges is really not to blame in my opininon...
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 6:49 pm
SecretSoul
Just a thought, the ouputs of the U46, are they going into you line inputs on the mixer? Or the phono inputs?
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 7:13 pm
sjursjur
The line inputs of course. I don't want to seem arrogant, but I work in the AV-industry, so I know how to hook up my equipment... :-)
Anyway, the problem is within the VDJ realm, not in the output. If the TCV signal going into VDJ is to strong it will not affect the soundquality that VDJ puts out, but it affects the way the TCV responds. If the TCV signal peaks, it loses quality and thus VDJ can not read it correctly.
Thank's for the input though!
Anyway, the problem is within the VDJ realm, not in the output. If the TCV signal going into VDJ is to strong it will not affect the soundquality that VDJ puts out, but it affects the way the TCV responds. If the TCV signal peaks, it loses quality and thus VDJ can not read it correctly.
Thank's for the input though!
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 7:30 pm
SecretSoul
fair enought. very strange that i have no problems with mine. maybe some kind of fault with your u46? i'm just guessing now.
hope you resolve it anyway.
hope you resolve it anyway.
发表时间 Sun 13 Aug 06 @ 7:41 pm
