Mike Marble
Hi,
while doing a final check of my TC setup last night, I noticed that I have some mini fluctuations on the TC signal received from the vinyls. I did not notice this so far, as I was not seeing any problems while using the TCs.
Anyway - what I am seeing in the TC Setup dialog with the scopes and stuff is, that every now and then the signal drops from 100% to like 90% or 80%. But it is only for a split second. It becomes aparent in the scope of the TC signal, as it becomes a bit "noisy" in those situations. By "noisy" I mean that the circles are washing out towards the edges a bit. The Noise LP filter toggle makes this effect less aparent, but it still happens every now and then. I tried my second TC vinyl which shows the same behavior.
Additionally I also see the speed indicator in the graph vary between +/- 0.1 --- but as far as I know this is normal for TC vinyl. Correct?
As said before, I have not noticed these fluctuations to become a problem - at least that what my ears tell me. But nevertheless I wonder if this is normal for a vinyl based TC solution? For TCCDs I would expect pretty much a constant 100% rate, as long as the cables are OK. For vinyl I could understand, if there was some degree of fluctuation which would be expected when working with an analog TC source.
So bottomline from me are the following two questions:
- Is it normal to see such short fluctuaions in signal strength? Is it even realistic to expect purely 100% signal quality all the time from a TC vinyl?
- Aparently those mini-blips I see do not have an effect on the behavior of the TC solution, but I would expect that either stronger dropouts (e.g. only 30%) or longer dropouts (not the split second I mentioned but let's say half a second) will be an issue. Does anybody have an idea at what extent those fluctuations might become a problem?
Audio-Interface: NI Audio 4 DJ
TC Vinyl: Traktor Scratch (A Side)
Thanks for any insight.
Mike
while doing a final check of my TC setup last night, I noticed that I have some mini fluctuations on the TC signal received from the vinyls. I did not notice this so far, as I was not seeing any problems while using the TCs.
Anyway - what I am seeing in the TC Setup dialog with the scopes and stuff is, that every now and then the signal drops from 100% to like 90% or 80%. But it is only for a split second. It becomes aparent in the scope of the TC signal, as it becomes a bit "noisy" in those situations. By "noisy" I mean that the circles are washing out towards the edges a bit. The Noise LP filter toggle makes this effect less aparent, but it still happens every now and then. I tried my second TC vinyl which shows the same behavior.
Additionally I also see the speed indicator in the graph vary between +/- 0.1 --- but as far as I know this is normal for TC vinyl. Correct?
As said before, I have not noticed these fluctuations to become a problem - at least that what my ears tell me. But nevertheless I wonder if this is normal for a vinyl based TC solution? For TCCDs I would expect pretty much a constant 100% rate, as long as the cables are OK. For vinyl I could understand, if there was some degree of fluctuation which would be expected when working with an analog TC source.
So bottomline from me are the following two questions:
- Is it normal to see such short fluctuaions in signal strength? Is it even realistic to expect purely 100% signal quality all the time from a TC vinyl?
- Aparently those mini-blips I see do not have an effect on the behavior of the TC solution, but I would expect that either stronger dropouts (e.g. only 30%) or longer dropouts (not the split second I mentioned but let's say half a second) will be an issue. Does anybody have an idea at what extent those fluctuations might become a problem?
Audio-Interface: NI Audio 4 DJ
TC Vinyl: Traktor Scratch (A Side)
Thanks for any insight.
Mike
发表时间 Wed 10 Nov 10 @ 4:05 am
Fuskit
On new vinyls I don't see that problem, but after a bit I will see it more and more. However, if I clean my vinyl, the problem is solved for a little while. So apparently it is just from dirt, dust, fingerprints on the vinyl. Also, check your styli to make sure they are clean. I know that I have had them get dirty and it cause the same behavior on brand new timecodes but when I cleaned the styli the problem went away again. Try cleaning them and see if you still have the fluctuation.
Michael
Michael
发表时间 Fri 12 Nov 10 @ 12:49 am
ReThink
I would say that it's normal because I have them also. The signal loss is acceptable in my case because it does not effect the sound, that I can tell. Wipe the vinyls and clean your needles often. Dust is now your worst enemy and its everywhere!! Well dust and dirty dirty bass drums also...
As long as your keeping everything clean you shouldn't have any worries.
**Question: Is there a reason why you choose to use the Traktor vinyls over the Serato vinyls?
I have them both and I prefer Serato because of the lead in. I cue all of my tracks in absolute (cured my sticker drifting problem) and when I get them playing it switches to smart_relative so I can take advantage of cues, loops and whatever else.
When I drop the needle on the outer edge of the Traktor it grabs the music right away and on the Serato, it grabs the music where the music would start on the record if it were a real record (hope that makes sense).
As long as your keeping everything clean you shouldn't have any worries.
**Question: Is there a reason why you choose to use the Traktor vinyls over the Serato vinyls?
I have them both and I prefer Serato because of the lead in. I cue all of my tracks in absolute (cured my sticker drifting problem) and when I get them playing it switches to smart_relative so I can take advantage of cues, loops and whatever else.
When I drop the needle on the outer edge of the Traktor it grabs the music right away and on the Serato, it grabs the music where the music would start on the record if it were a real record (hope that makes sense).
发表时间 Tue 16 Nov 10 @ 2:21 pm
ReThink
Oh yeah, just in case, map a button to turn TC off
timecode_active off
timecode_active off
发表时间 Tue 16 Nov 10 @ 2:32 pm
Mike Marble
Thanks for both your answers. I will recheck the setup, and probably also do a test with Traktor just to see if it makes any difference.
About Traktor vs. Serato Vinyl: I use the Traktor vinyl, because I have them. I know this sounds, like me being a smartass. :-) I got the package by Native Instruments which includes some "duo" (aka "light") version of Traktor, the audio 4 DJ usb audiointerface and matching timecode vinyl and CDs. Currently (and until end of 2010) this package is 50%, which makes it the least expensive DVS system on the market right now. And AFAIK the included soundcard is very good quality and is usually sold for the same price alone.
Maybe I will get some Serato Discs in the future, but since I don't play every week (or god forbid even multiple times a week), I think the Traktor Scratch discs will work some time for me.
BTW - I also have a problem with the TC starting too early on the Traktor vinyl. What I have found out though, is that in "smart relative" mode, it seems I can needle drop not at the beginning but at the first "ring" on the disc, and it will use that as starting point. More generic, it seems like the position of the first needle drop is used as the starting point. But I am not sure, this really works 100% of the time. Another "trick" I have come up with once I am "stuck" at the very beginning of the disc, is to cue into the middle or the end of the disc (meaning I needle drop in very large steps), and then I make small steps back. This usually allows me to recover from that situation where the starting of the Timecode on the disc is nailed to the start of the song. But of course, this is the kind of hassle I would rather not have to bother about at all.
Anyway - we are getting offtopic. I would like to hear more opinions on the fluctuation theme.
About Traktor vs. Serato Vinyl: I use the Traktor vinyl, because I have them. I know this sounds, like me being a smartass. :-) I got the package by Native Instruments which includes some "duo" (aka "light") version of Traktor, the audio 4 DJ usb audiointerface and matching timecode vinyl and CDs. Currently (and until end of 2010) this package is 50%, which makes it the least expensive DVS system on the market right now. And AFAIK the included soundcard is very good quality and is usually sold for the same price alone.
Maybe I will get some Serato Discs in the future, but since I don't play every week (or god forbid even multiple times a week), I think the Traktor Scratch discs will work some time for me.
BTW - I also have a problem with the TC starting too early on the Traktor vinyl. What I have found out though, is that in "smart relative" mode, it seems I can needle drop not at the beginning but at the first "ring" on the disc, and it will use that as starting point. More generic, it seems like the position of the first needle drop is used as the starting point. But I am not sure, this really works 100% of the time. Another "trick" I have come up with once I am "stuck" at the very beginning of the disc, is to cue into the middle or the end of the disc (meaning I needle drop in very large steps), and then I make small steps back. This usually allows me to recover from that situation where the starting of the Timecode on the disc is nailed to the start of the song. But of course, this is the kind of hassle I would rather not have to bother about at all.
Anyway - we are getting offtopic. I would like to hear more opinions on the fluctuation theme.
发表时间 Wed 17 Nov 10 @ 1:58 am
Fuskit
ReThink wrote :
Oh yeah, just in case, map a button to turn TC off
timecode_active off
timecode_active off
best advice ever. I have 2 buttons mapped (one for each deck) to turn timecode on and off. I found out the hard way at an outdoor music festival I was doing a stage performance at that this was a great idea. High humidity + dust and dirt = timecode hell. "clone deck, throw fader, clean styli, load and cue next track AGAIN, and begin to mix" ....total pain in the ass. Now with those buttons mapped, its awesome.
Michael
发表时间 Thu 18 Nov 10 @ 10:50 am